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Original poster

what has feminism ever done for us?

390 replies

SenoraPostrophe · 09/04/2007 20:41

right girls, it's timne for a proper debate which isn';t about blardy weaning.

the motion is this:

feminism has not really acheived anything. women got the vote and were accepted in the workplace because of the world wars and not because of reason. Later, we accepted careers, but ended up neither having our cake nor eating it what with all the housework and childcare we were doing. and male hegemony still reigns supreme.

discuss.

OP posts:
tribpot · 09/04/2007 22:49

If it's true that rape was a 'recognised' form of courtship until recently (I would argue more a 'not yet prosecuted' one) the fact that this law has been passed surely supports the idea that our society rejects physical strength as a determiner (except maybe in Iraq and Afghanistan: discuss!)

hunkermunker · 09/04/2007 22:50

"Equal" doesn't have to mean "same" though.

I don't want the right to scratch my bollocks in public, for instance.

hunkermunker · 09/04/2007 22:51

(One day soon I will post on a thread and NOT lower the tone - sorry, sorry, sorry)

monkeytrousers · 09/04/2007 22:51

Because you are statiscically more likely to be primary carer UCM. And women shouldn't be penalised for that.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 09/04/2007 22:52

I dont know exact timelines, but its only been within the last 30 years that rape has been recognised as being able to happen within a marriage. i.e. at one point, if a man wanted sex, he could do whatever he felt inclined to, and fear no consequences. I have no idea how common it was (and undoubtedly still is), but that was the law.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 09/04/2007 22:53

"if a husband" would have made more sense in that paragraph methinks....

monkeytrousers · 09/04/2007 22:54

I agree Tribpot - but societies aren't stable. In war for instance when indigenous men are away fighting preponderance of rape shoots up.

Power balances are mobile - have you done anything on game theory at uni?

harpsichordcarrier · 09/04/2007 22:54

actually, the law in that respect was only changed early in the 1990s.

madamez · 09/04/2007 22:55

Feminism has given women the opportunity to choose whether they want to live as breeding animals/domestic applicances or not, at least in the developed world. At the core of feminism is the simple belief that women are human beings, not a subsidiary class of humanity that exists only in relation to and for the benefit of "human beings" ie men.

monkeytrousers · 09/04/2007 22:57

game theory and evolutionary stable strategies

decades of study just opened up there for you

VeniVidiVickiQV · 09/04/2007 22:59

I agree I cast quite a wide net there harpsi.....

Even more shocking that it was only the 1990s.

EnormousChangesAtTheLastMinute · 09/04/2007 22:59

but hunker you do have the same 'right' to scratch your bits in public as any man. it's just (i'm guessing here) you understand the responsibilities which come with those rights and spare others the sight of you having a good scratch.

custy · 09/04/2007 23:00

madamez - domestic appliences - what does that mean?

do you mean that women having hte vote has enabled them to work? or to have a choice to work? or to work and not wash the dishes? or.....

UCM · 09/04/2007 23:01

No there isn't, but what a waste, giving everyone a shot at everything, even though some people are not suited to it, when through education you can syphon out the people like me, who are the normal everyday people.

I might be in management, but I sure as hell don't have a degree. O&A levels maybe but not degree.

Then where would the people who work in the service industry come from. Shit or bust, I am not a bloody socialist, there has to be a hierarchy at some point, even if its for all of the students to work their way through uni.

If we were all equal, then I would still bow down to the doctors, teachers, police officers, paramedics etc

But no one would care or even understand IYKWIM

Heathcliffscathy · 09/04/2007 23:01

but feminism is obsolete.

thunk.

it's outrageous that women should be at pains to dissassociate themselves from the term isn't it vvv?

monkeytrousers · 09/04/2007 23:02

okay I'm off to bed.

madamez I agree with your post. The mistake feminism made though was think men only attempted to do this to women when they did it to themselves as well!

monkeytrousers · 09/04/2007 23:04

I'd recommed Idiocracy to you all - it's a film, a comedy.

UCM · 09/04/2007 23:09

I am trying to suss this out in my fairly pissed state.

The reason every woman gets 6 months mat leave is so they can spend time with their baby. So why don't men get it. DH has been pretty much at home since I had my daughter 10 weeks ago and if I am honest has had more to do with her than me. For instance, I took a walk this afternoon wiht my DS and I am on here now, he is feeding her. We are sharing the whole thing, and I know most of you will be really pleased to hear it. But when I go back to work, there will be men moaning about their wives, having affairs, expecting congratulations on having babies.

monkeytrousers · 09/04/2007 23:11

You buck a trend UCM. Most women are documented to want to be primary carer - that isn't to say all do - but that most do is all. It is statistically significamt

Original poster
SenoraPostrophe · 09/04/2007 23:13

oi, I thought you were goiung to bed?

But anyway, you know very well that just because a majority of women say they want to be majority carer doesn't tell us anything about why they want to be the mian carer or what they would want if we lived in a truly equal society...

OP posts:
Original poster
SenoraPostrophe · 09/04/2007 23:14

and god, that game theory stuff. am working up a rant about it.

OP posts:
VeniVidiVickiQV · 09/04/2007 23:18

Absolutely Soph.

Although, I suspect that some women still do think that marital rape is 'acceptable', because of the outdated marriage vows they took.

monkeytrousers · 09/04/2007 23:21

Not what they say - what they do. Statistics are important as they halp us see the bigger picture.

Im off to bed now.

game theory is very complicated. The wiki thing is just a round up.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 09/04/2007 23:21

UCM, the simple fact is, that women can hopefully, and/or if they choose to, breastfeed, and, if the government are to encourage more women to do so, they need to allow an appropriate length of time for this to be established. Current recommendations are for 6 months, thus paid MAT leave changing to suit.

I think you have to be able to distinguish the fine line between family friendly and discrimination against men.

hunkermunker · 09/04/2007 23:25

MT, I'm confused - are you saying women usually want to be primary carer and often are, or that they just are and it might be because they want to be?