Holiday Entitlement Whilst on Maternity Leave... HELP!

[Toothache]

Hi Folks,

I've got yet another problem with my work……
I was planning on leaving w/e 18th June 2004, taking 2 wks holiday then my Maternity Leave commencing from 5th July when I'm 35 wks pg. I asked Personnel what would happen to my holiday entitlement. If I look at my full years entitlement I get 25 days and 8 Bank holidays. I have taken 9 days holiday already and was wondering if I should just add ALL of my remaining days (16) onto the beginning of my leave. Personnel replied this morning saying that I wouldn't lose any holidays, but they would calculate my entitlement according to when I intend to go off on Mat Leave! This suggests to me that I'm not getting my full years worth of holidays?? I thought you still accrued holidays when you were on Mat Leave! Am I wrong?? And what happens over Christmas and New year when I'm still off...... do I get paid for the Bank Holidays? Seems unfair for me to lose holidays and bank holidays just coz I'm due a baby in the middle of the year instead of the start/end of it!

HELP!!! I only get paid 6wks pay before it drops to £100 per week and I can't afford to use that 6wks up before the baby even arrives, but I also can't work any further into my pregnancy due to health concerns.

I am the same, I cannot take holiday in advance, even though I will be an employee althogh on Mat leave. I am taking a wk at the beg of Mat leave, then 2 wks at the end, followed by a couple of months unpaid leave. I understand that it is because I will not have accrued it, so am not entitled to it.

I read it the same way as Twiglett - that once she has clocked over the 6 months "working" she can have the balance. As to why they cannot pay you a prorata amount each month I'm not sure but could be that you are still entitled to return to work within that period and might want them later. Do you still have to write letters by certain deadlines in order to retain your right to return anyway ?

tootache

You do accrue holiday whilst your on maternity. But its not like you can take that holiday whilst you are on maternity, so it just gets rolled up and put to the end.

You could try convincing HR that you think it would be best to come back at the beginning of the year, and so is there no way that you could take the holiday up front before accruing it.

Got to dash, 20 week scan at 11am

How about you think of it the other way round?

If you take your 26 weeks starting from 5th July you would go back on the 3rd January. If you started your mat leave 2 weeks earlier, more or less as your company are suggesting - you'd nominally be back on the 20th December. Even if you actually go back then you'd only have to work one week, then get 2 public holidays and a three day week the week after, and another two public holidays if you're in Scotland the week after that. You'd probably actually be able to take at least some of that as the accrued holiday, so you'd actually get more paid time off by getting paid for those public holidays.

So if your mat leave started 21st June, you'd have accrued 11.5 days holiday and have 13.5 to come at the end of your mat leave. That would allow you to take 2 days holiday immediately before your mat leave (so your last working day would be 16th June). Your nominal return date would be 20th December, but you would then have 14 days holiday left. Assuming you took that immediately after your mat leave you would use 5 days on the first week, 3 days each on the next 2 weeks, and 3 days on the fourth week. Giving you an actual back at work date of the 13th January. Which is 10 days later than you'd have got on your original calculation. In fact it's so much better I think I must have got it wrong somewhere - but I've got some work to do now so perhaps someone else can redo the calculations and check it.

eyes whirl round in a tizz

yes, but Gill W, I think toothache is trying to get as much money in the bank up front as poss. Therefore if she did as you propose her maternity pay would run out sooner whereas if she took a load of holiday it would start 3 or 4 weeks later and she'd have full pay in the meantime.

Toothache, I am sending you my phone number via mumsnet - give me a call and I will try and talk you through the law/contractual rights etc on holiday entitlement.
Sis

message withdrawn

Thanks again everyone. It does seem to be a rather confusing issue doesn't it??

LIZ - That's right. I don't think I will be physically able to work any later than 34 wks so wanted to try to take as much time off as paid holidays at the start to avoid my 6wks maternity pay running out too early. That last thing I need is serious financial issues the week the baby is born.

I'm not too fussed about the specific date I return to work as I will not be returning until January, no matter what. And even then, I'm hoping to be part-time (4 days per week).

I just find it odd that had I not told them I was pregnant in January I could have taken all of my 25 days i9n Jan/Feb/Mar! Why suddenly is it an accrual thing when we talk about Maternity?

If I had used all of my holidays by March, then told them I was pregnant and leaving for Mat Leave in June.... would I have had to pay back 12.5 days holidays?

Twigglet - that may be a bit risky though. If the illness is viewed as being pregancy related then they can force her to start her maternity leave from 29 weeks onwards. This would leave her even worse off than she is at the moment.

Toothache, you mentioned health concerns preventing you not being able to work any longer into pregnancy. Couldn't your GP sign you off sick prior to your maternity leave commencing? I can't remember what the cut off point for sick leave is before it automatically becomes maternity leave, but it might me worth looking into.

I soldiered on in one of my pregnancies for a long time when I should have been signed off sick. A midwife dismissed the significant pain I was in as "something everyone suffers during pregnancy". It turned out it was something called symphysis pubis dysfunction (the pubic bone shifts due to pregnancy causing excruciating pain!). I was immediately given crutches, mega painkillers and no more work as I had to stay off my feet as much as possible.

Ah I was lucky, my condition was not deemed pregnancy related (although in truth it was). I think personnel may have been too embarrassed to ask!

Toothache, it's hugely confusing isn't it? I have just gone on maternity taking 20 of my 25 days annual leave at the beginning of my maternity. so my last day of work was in april, but my maternity starts on may 16th. why don't you go and talk to them or call the hr person - they can't try and diddle you cos it's statutary rights. i too only got 6 weeks and then 100 a week- it's crap isn't it? mind you, last time i only got maternity allowance cos i'd been temping on and off and that is pittance. hope you get it sorted and feel like you get what you are entitled to

Right. My sis has replied and says that at her company, she lets people use up their holiday entitlement before maternity OR tag it onto the end. But I would have to check with my firm as to what their policy is. But she did point out that it doesn't really matter if it at the beginning or end, you still get the same time off. So you could take x days now (accrued already) take your 6 months mat then take the days accrued whilst on mat leave.

Does this make sense? Does to me sort of.

I was very friendly with HR and they were lovely when my placenta praevia put me in hospital at 33 weeks. They paid me full sick pay until the day my ds was born at 371/2 weeks, then maternity pay from then. But I was lucky and had an exceptionally nice HR manager who sneaked it through. Obviously my condition could not have been MORE of a preg-related one!

I think the hol pay situation is the same as if you left a job - ie they look at how much holiday you have left on your leaving date and pay you for it, rather than pay you monthly for it.

My sister has just replied too and sounds like whether you take it all before or get paid for it/take it afterwards is company specific but either way you shouldnt lose out on the holiday or pay.

This is what she put in her mail and from DTI website:

Annual leave accrues in the same way and at the same rate as if the employee was at work while she is on ordinary maternity leave. Even if the employee has no right to annual leave under her contract of employment, she will be entitled to the equivalent of four weeks' paid annual leave under the Working Time Regulations 1998. This would apply in the usual way during her ordinary maternity leave period.

Guidance on calculating statutory holiday entitlement can be found in Your guide to the Working Time Regulations.

An employee cannot take annual leave during her ordinary maternity leave but, subject to the usual arrangements with her employer, there is no reason why she cannot take a period of annual leave immediately before or after maternity leave.

This is what they do at her company - We allow individuals to take all of their accrued leave up front and encourage them to do that rather than take at the end. We also offer to pay them any leave that they have not been able to take - but that is company specific.

hope this is helpful - just need to ask my company what the situation is??

good luck to all!

Stop Press - although think everyone must have gont to lunch as this has gone quiet. I just phoned the ACAS helpline (08457 474747) and asked them the basic rules about taking all of your holiday leave and they said:

You can take all the holiday entitled to you that year when you go on maternity leave (if your mat leave is going to go over into next holiday year).
You can only carry over to the following year (if it works out that way) if agreed with your company.

They are sending me a booklet.
Hope this makes sense but worth ringing the number and asking about your particular situation.

I find this website very very helpful and useful...I found I have been told something by HR and then looked at this site to find out HR got it wrong.

www.maternityalliance.org.uk/

Thanks again for all this info. I think I've got it straight now. If I want to take the holidays at the start of Mat Leave then I can either take it as unpaid time or speak to my boss and it's at his discretion. NO CHANCE will he go for that!! He's not exactly been great about all this.

The girl in Personnel was very nice about it all. I won't lose any of my holidays, but it will be at the companies discretion whether I can add it on at the start.

As for the sick pay.... I thought it was before 36 wks not 29 wks that they could automatically start Mat Leave???? Hope so as this is really my only chance to leave at a time that is necessary for me.

Sorry to add confusion but presumably this depends on your holiday year - assuming it is Jan to Dec then you should be able to take all your holiday entitlement for the rest of the year up front - it is at the company's discretion if you are allowed to carry it to the next leave year not the other way around.

Try that ACAS number for the definitive answer 08457 474747. in my experience personnel depts often dont get it right!

Tallgirl - Really?? So the company might just decide to right off those 12.5 days holiday???? Surely not!

Sorry i am really confused now?? Tell me if i've got this right....you want to take all your holiday for the rest of the year before you start mat leave (so can get paid for longer which makes sense to me) rather than have to carry what is left (i.e. what you accrue while on mat leave) over to next year (if/when you return) or get paid for it? If so then yes you should be able to take it before your mat leave. Do please ring that ACAS number and explain your circumstances.

That's right Tallgirl.
Personnel have told me that if I book the holidays at the start of my Mat leave, then those days will be deducted from my salary.

But she says if I speak to my boss he MIGHT allow me to take them in lieu. >sigh<

I will contact them to check all this out. Thanks everyone! And thanks Sis.

I think your employers are definitely in the wrong and hope you manage to sort this out. You should be legally entitled to take your leave - make sure you dont let them get away with anything dodgy!

Good luck and keep us posted!

LOL