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This is my pledge to Yorkiegirl ....

202 replies

moaningpaper · 28/10/2006 15:02

This is my pledge to Yorkiegirl .... (well to my family really)

I WILL swallow my horror at the whole wife thing and get married in the next 12 months so that my family has more legal protection.

Who wants to join me?

OP posts:
fortyplus · 31/10/2006 11:04

And I've been so busy washing husband's skidmarks off underwear, preparing his pipe and slippers and a gourmet meal for when he gets home that I've missed all the other posts in between!
God - I love MN!
I'm really GLAD that we're all so different and can enjoy a good argument!

fortyplus · 31/10/2006 11:10

Blackduck - pleased your ILs aren't as bad as I thought

Cappuccino - I think I love you

moaningpaper - did you realise what you were starting?

Welshboris - still haven't forgiven you for referring to a baby donkey as a kid

fortyplus · 31/10/2006 11:14

Blackduck - glad your ils aren't as bad as i thought

Cap - I think I love you!

Welshboris - still haven't forgiven you for referring to a baby donkey as a kid

moaningp - did you realise what you were starting?!

WelshBoris · 31/10/2006 11:16

fortyplus- I didnt mean it

I just hate the phrase "kid" to describe children

my DDs best friend is actually a donkey called Dobbie

Tatties · 31/10/2006 11:18

Fennel your post of 9.51 is absolutely spot-on.

fortyplus · 31/10/2006 11:20

Oops - sorry posted similar twice - thought broadband had gone down (again!) Brain must be addled from too many years as very respectable married person

fortyplus · 31/10/2006 11:21

Ok Welshboris - I love you too

fortyplus · 31/10/2006 11:22

Tatties - I'm right with you on the 'moving in moment' that was the scariest bit for me, too.

fortyplus · 31/10/2006 11:23

Tatties - I'm right with you on the 'moving in moment' that was the scariest bit for me, too.

moaningpaper · 31/10/2006 11:42

If I can just elaborate on the "wanting to be with him together" horror:

I just don't understand why anyone would WANT to say that about anyone, unless it is because you really like the fairytale/romantic idea. It is a big part of the traditional 'marriage' idea - in fact, what we think of marriage as MEANING. But it isn't a REALISTIC statement. It is an idealistic statement. That is fine, but it is unfair to expect every couple to want to feel that way. Lots of couples (particularly divorced ones) think that the "forever" idea is a nonsense. You can't know what you will be/feel like "forever" - nevermind what you will feel about someone else (who will be a totally different person in ten years time) - by the end of your lifetime. You might want to COMMIT to being with someone "forever" and that's fine, if that's what you want to do. But lots of people prefer to accept that they might change, and that might not necessarily be a BAD thing. It might just be part of life. Does that mean I am less serious about my DP? I think I am just a realist.

OP posts:
fortyplus · 31/10/2006 12:16

mp - better to be a realist than a fairy fantasist, in my opinion. I still think the big scary commitments are buying a house and having children.

Dottydot · 31/10/2006 13:36

MP - I get that, but if the horror of splitting up is going to be as painful whether you're married or not - and in a lot of ways possibly a lot more messy if you're not married, in terms of one partner possibly not having the right to a share in the house (if mortgage in one name), or other funds, doesn't marriage solve a lot of these problems, and make sure you're provided for in any tragic circumstances?

I still can't see that getting married is more scary/ominous than moving in together/having children/having a joint mortgage! To me it just solves a lot of legal issues (which was the original reason dp and I chose to have do the civil partnership thing - all very unromantic. The fact that we ended up having a lovely day was a bonus!).

Dottydot · 31/10/2006 13:38

fortyplus - snap! I'm also enjoying the debate on this thread by the way - it's so interesting to be able to hear other people's views/beliefs that are different to your own and not end up in a huge fight !

Bucketsofbloodydinosaurs · 31/10/2006 13:52

On the subject of fairytale nonsense, I wanted to marry my dh because it was a way of shouting my feelings from the rooftops. I still do, I wish we could get married every year.
What's the point of being together otherwise?

lemonAIIEEE · 31/10/2006 14:15

For what it's worth, I would like to see the concept of civil marriage being both extended (to cover same-sex couples) and restricted (to be confined to the legalities), then any bolt-on stuff that the couple wished to throw in to reflect anything they wanted to say about love and commitment and so forth could be organised by them as an add-on with no legal significance (could be a church service, a humanist ceremony, having friends make a few speeches down the pub) if they wanted, or could be omitted entirely if they didn't want to make any public statement about their relationship. That just seems simpler to me -- I don't see the need to complicate things by having two parallel systems offering exactly the same legal rights just because (and I know I'm oversimplifying here) some people like the term "married" while others dislike it. Stick in some legal gubbins about how the legal relationship may be referred to as either a partnership or a marriage and let people call themselves what they want.

We got married... hmm... primarily for legal issues of one sort or another, probably with a side order of wanting to try to prove that it was possible to have a marriage that worked out and possibly a sprinkle of the fact that it wasn't really the done thing among our circle of friends so it was a bit rebellious. But the legal and financial issues were definitely the biggest element. And we did have a reception/party, because it was a good excuse and we hadn't thrown a really big party yet, and it was fun. We'll probably throw another big party when we turn 40, but I don't think that represents an unrealistic fairytale view of entering one's fifth decade.

I do find it odd that in many other areas advice would be not to worry about social attitudes or what people think, but that when it comes to marriage it seems to be a case of (crudely put) "Oh no, we couldn't get married. What would people think?". Is there an element that it's OK not to worry what people think if what they are likely to think is that you're a bit of an individualist, bucking the trend, ploughing your own furrow, etc., etc., but that suddenly what they think becomes really important if what they are likely to think is that you're a bit of a conservative, buy into a traditional set of moral values, have particular assumptions about gender roles, etc.? Just thinking aloud there, I suppose... I'm a bit surprised by how concerned some posters here, who I'd not previously thought were the type to worry about what other people thought, are about what assumptions might be made about them if they got married.

Blackduck · 31/10/2006 14:33

This is fascinating - BoBD - about wanting to short your feelings from the rooftops so you got married (I have a friend who was the same) - I just don't get it. my feelings for dp are exactly that MY feelings, and I have no desire to short them anywhere...!Equally my reasons for not wanting to do it have nothing to with a sense that this may not last 'forever'. Logically I can tell myself 'its just a piece of paper', emotional and psychologically I know its a whole lot more....

Bucketsofbloodydinosaurs · 31/10/2006 14:49

When you had your first child did you not sometimes think, ok the world can stop now, because I'VE HAD A BABY!!!
That's how excited I still get about the fact that me and my DH are together (nearly 8yrs).

sputnik · 31/10/2006 15:21

I was always anti-marriage, thinking the state (or church) has no business with my personal relationships, I don't need their endorsement.
However, after 15 years co-habiting we married when I got pg with DD to avoid any legal complications, and reading Yorkiegirl's thread I'm glad of it. Hasn't made a hoot of difference, but I got to have a nice meal and annoy my MIL by marrying in black. For ages afterwards I continued to refer to myself as DH's girlfriend, and had to be reminded. Still cringe at the word wife though, think it's to do with bad connotations like fishwife, old wives etc.
For what it's worth I think the thing about long term co-habitees marrying and then splitting up soon after may be to do with sometimes considering marriage as something that might save a relationship which is floundering.

drosophila · 31/10/2006 16:14

I bet Yorkigirl can't believe the twists and turns of this thread. She took the time to point out some potential advantages to being married which should be considered by us non-married (thanks). Others pointed out ways in which you can minimise the risks if you are unmarried (thanks).

I find the pro and anti marriage debate very intersting and a real insight into our times.

Blackduck · 31/10/2006 16:19

maybe thats it BoBD - I'm knocking on for 20 years with dp...(now THAT is scary!)

If I did it (and it is an extremely BIG IF) I wouldn't tell a soul.....

moaningpaper · 31/10/2006 16:52

No I don't have the urge to shout it from the rooftops

I occasionally feel that way about my baby's thighs

OP posts:
Blackduck · 31/10/2006 16:57

MP - LOL...

Cappuccino · 31/10/2006 17:03

"I just don't understand why anyone would WANT to say that about anyone, unless it is because you really like the fairytale/romantic idea."

no, it's not because of that. dh and I have been together for 14 years, we have grown as people and as a couple. It is a process that is one of the most important things that either of us have.

My life is not a fairytale. We argue about things and we have two snotty kids. We do not have romantic candlelit moments from month to month. We have been through a lot (with dd1's cp diagnosis, and various other family deaths and what-have-you).

I have no idealistic expectations about my marriage beyond what it really is. I don't want anyone else or any other relationship - and though I know that you never know what is around the corner, for the last 14 years this is something I have been more sure of than anything else in my life. And I think that is something that is empowering - certainly it makes us both stronger as individuals - rather than snortworthy.

Bucketsofbloodydinosaurs · 31/10/2006 18:01

Actually Blackduck, I'm slightly jealous, how cool to be secretly married .

threebob · 31/10/2006 19:18

My thoughts have turned to my friend who has 3 children - has been with her partner for years (not sure how many - but longer than dh and I). I looked up the widow benefit here in NZ and found that

Can I get the Widows Benefit?
You may be able to get the Widow's Benefit if:

you are a woman whose partner has died and
you have one or more dependent children or
were married or in a civil union at least 15 years, and had children or
had dependent children for at least 15 years while married or in a civil union or widowed or
you are a woman who is aged 50 years and whose partner has died and
you were married or in a civil union for at least 5 years and became a widow after you turned 50 years or
you were married or in a civil union for at least a total of 10 years, got married (for the first time) not less than 15 years ago and became a widow after you turned 40 years.
If you were married or in a civil union more than once, we count the total number of years you were married or in a civil union.

Married means legally married or living as husband and wife. If you don't have dependent children, you and your partner must have been living in New Zealand when your partner died and for the 3 years before that (or continuously for 5 years at another time). You can only get this benefit if you have never remarried or found a new partner.

So in a way it's better - because you only needed to be "as man and wife". But 15 years! How would you prove that you had been "as man and wife for 15 years" unless you bought a house in joint names or something.

And I realise there are good reasons that it is paid to women - but in this day and age if the man had taken on the SAHD role surely he should qualify.