More Harry Potter- Does anyone else think Snapes a goodie?

[imnot27]

Having re-read The Half Blood Prince last week, I think he is on the right side, but no-one agrees with me! Anyone else sad enough to have an opinion on this?

Frankly, it took so long to even get to the test paper on mugglenet, I am not sure I could bear to undergo whatever I would have to to receive the test results! Or am I being a grouch again?

Re Snape: he is a goody and all will be revealed in the last book. I don't think he has to do much persuading when it comes to the Order of the Phoenix. They all seem to accept he is on the right side because Dumbledore thought so The only bit he has to explain away is the minor issue of why he killed Dumbledore... A piece of cake really....

have reread book now

right

think snape is deffo goody. remember how harry is told by dd to keep making him drink the potion? and harry does? think snape has made some sort of vow to dd to kill him in this situation. which is why dd askd h repeatedly to get snape. and pos why snape has a look of hatred-imagine being put in this situation!

have been pondering on whether snape was expected to produce a horcrux, having killed dd...have decided against it, on balance.

dd has almost certainly killed peop;e. eg grinwald. thus the phoenix cold be a horcrux.

i did find the thing that made me suspicuis and now i have lost it again. its something to do with dd being oddly satisfied...

am wondering if dd has a prophecy also. why is trelawney back on the staff? maybe summat there?

now, important question. how sad exactly would it be to go through my book with different coloured highlighter pens?

sorry, not clear. think the snape killing dd situation is echo of harry making dd drink situation...one after the other for dramatic effect.

if snape is a baddie...well its a bit boring really then, isn't it?

Filljonk, (love the name by the way) Its your duty to go through the book with highlighters. I think after the last book is out I will have to go through them all again so I can appreciate the little clues and how they unfolded. Whats sad about that? Its just detailed research

Fillyjonk, is is definitely your duty to sit down, ignore the world around you, and reread the book in order to find the exact quote you are looking for re Dumbledore being "oddly satisfied". The post it here, with a page reference, so I can read it and refute all suggestions that Dumbledore is a baddy.

Well, you don't have anything else to do today, do you?

I think the oddly satisfied quote is at the end of Goblet of Fire, when Dumbledore hears that Voldemort has mixed Harry's blood with his own. I think this could be Voldemort's downfall. (Hope this hasn't been covered in one of the 400 messages below!)

Well done Tribpot, that rings a bell in my mind too and come with a very satisfactory and innocent explanation!

ok am half way through book six again and i am annoyed with myself for not thinking of highlighter pens!
professor trelawney is still on the staff for her own protection, she has no idea that she made the prophesy and so no idea of what danger she is in ,in the outside world.
on page 380 hagrid tells harry about the argument he over heard betweeen snape and dumbledore;
"i just heard snape saying dumbledore took too much for granted and maybe he-snape-didn't wan ter do do it anymore----anyway, dumbledore told him flat out he'd agreed to do it an' that's all there was to it."

this is dumbledore telling snape he has to prevent malfoy from killing him and kill dd himself if necessary, proving that snape is a goody.

having done lots more thinking about it, i have also decided, that by jkrowlings very definition of a horcrux, that dumbledore could not have made one. Just because he 'defeated' grindelwald doesn't mean that he killed him.a horcrux is a receptacle a dark waizard uses to hold a piece of his soul in order to obvtain immortality. dd woul never do this.he is not a dark wizard.

Why does Trelawney need protection? She has no idea she made the prophecy and neither does Voldemort. Oh Snape I suppose knows. but then if Snape is fully trusted by Dumbledore, D would know that T safety would not be compromised by S telling V.

Hmmmmmmmm unless Snape isns't trustworthy?.....

Right, exact quote - page 604 of the paperback edition:

"'He said my blood would make him stronger than if he'd used someone else's,' Harry told Dumbledore. 'He said the protection my - my mother left in me - he'd have it, too. And he was right - he could touch me without hurting himself, he touched my face.'
For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of something like triumph in Dumbledore's eyes."

(Hope JK is not like She Who Must Not Be Named or she'll probably sue me for quoting from the book).

ok i will quote- page 400

" i cannot aske firenze to return to the forest wher ehe is now an outcast, nor can i ask sybill trelawney to leave .between ourselves she has no idea of the danger she would be in outside the castle.she does not know-and i think it would unwise to enlighten her-that she made the prophesy about you and voldermort, you see"

but mm good point-who else knows?

tribpot-this must mean a way to voldermorts downfall-it must. it must make him more vulnerable.

Or to go back to my horcrux idea Voldemort went to alot of trouble to have Harry there at his rejuvanating. Whats the point of a horcrux if you then don't reclaim that part of yourself when neccessary? So maybe Harry had been a horcrux and the taking of blood and spell unhorcruxed him hence DD triumph? After that did Harry continue to have visions from V or the snake or pain in his scar? I can't remember....could be all crazy thinking of course....

I don't see how Harry could ever have been a horcrux. To make a horcrux would take endlessly complex dark magic, and Voldemort didn't have the time or the power to do that to Harry. Unless the "Harry as Horcrux" people are suggesting that Voldemort made Harry a horcrux before he went to kill him. But then, why would he want to kill his horcrux?

But how could he have made Harry into a horcrux after the avada kedavra curse had rebounded on him and he'd lost his powers? That wouldn't have been possible - it's quite clear that Voldemort immediately lost all power and wasn't capable of doing any magic at all (or any normal thing either) let alone the dark magic required to do a horcrux.

[Geeky emoticon]

[Geekity geekity geek]

I thought V liked to make horcruxes at significant murders and Harry was very significant to V cuz of prophecy so maybe he had already done the neccessary magic to make the horcrux but then lost control of where it went in the end....
I am still wondering why DD was so certain of Snape.
I agree that Dd wouldn't have made a horcrux. That he wouldn't be afraid of death. Remember Sirius wasn't afraid to die and didn't become a ghost. Also suspect V would be in category of becoming a ghost as he is afraid of death! I wonder will JK make him a ghost in the end???

I agree that Dumbledore's triumph at harry's news about Voldemort does not reveal a dark side to Dumbledore. I don't know about horcruxes, but I think it somehow makes Voldemort more vulnerable and easier to defeat.

Going back to my own question about why should Trelawney be in danger because only Harry, Dumbledore and Snape knew who made the prophecy, I think I have the answer.

Snape, when he overhard the prophecy, was still a follower of Voldemort, so I suppose when told Voldermort the prophecy, he could also have said who made it.

I love this thread!!!

no no no there is deffo somthing in book 7 about being oddly satisfied.

oh ffs.

am trying to write an essay...and its NOT on harry potter, its on whether saturn's moons can sustain life. ordinarily quite an interesting topic, but still....

will this evening sit down and find it agian.

I remember thinking when I read it, not "wow dd is a villain" but "hmmm....odd".

Have just thought of somehting re harry the horocrux. I know creating a horocrux contains much black magic BUT this is voldemort's seventh. And we know that harry has some of v's powers...maybe v was trying to create a horcurx supreme through killing h, but then accidentally made h a horcrux? is that possible?

oooh i LOVE this thread.

agree dd is not a dark wizard...hmm, i do not really think the horcrux idea fits. nor do i think dd as baddy actually fits, either.

i think partly why jkr is such a great writer is these twists though. I know there is going to be one. Snape is either going to be good, or, if evil, at least not straighforwardly so...

aaargh...not til JULY will we know....aaargh!

Still on Harry but a bit off topic. I have always wondered what has happened to Sirius ' flying motorbike. In book 1, Hagrid appeared with it after Harry had been rescued from Godric's Hollow, and he brought Harry to teh Dursleys. It has never really been mentioned again, apart, i think from one refernece when one of the characters mentioned "Sirius flying bike" when talking about the past.
Does anyone think it could be a horcrux and has been hidden somewhere.
Also, what happens to a secret keepers secret when they die. DD was the secret keeper for Grimmauld Place, so now he's dead, can only those who already know where it is find it, or can anyone.
And i think my roast pots are burning

Fillyjonk, is the publication date definitely fixed for July? I would hate to have my hopes raised only to have them dashed.

Tribpot, I also quoted that passage earlier on the thread, Friday, I think... Can't BELIEVE that you didn't read the whole thread before posting! Umm, flying motorbike, in the first film when Hagrid arrives at the island in the middle of the sea (as islands often are, I've heard) he takes him to London on his motorbike. I'm not sure if this is in the book though, I haven't read the first one for, ooh, months!

Definitely not in the book, H being taken to London on motorbike, I've read it recently.

Apparantly the motorbike is going to turn up in book 7 again. Presumably as it belonged to Sirius, it will now be Harry's property.

imnot27 - my humble apologies!