MNHQ transphobia guidelines part 2

[QueenStromba]

First thread here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2120841-MNHQ-are-going-to-decide-what-constitutes-transphobia-on-MN-What-advice-guidelines-would-you-give-them?

Sitestuff thread that was about is here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/2117350-MNHQ-now-email-posters-with-how-to-get-around-the-talk-guidelines?

The thread that was about is here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2107862-Following-on-from-the-TERF-thread?

Myrtle - "You may believe that I am a woman because I have XX chromosones, but to me my chromosones are irrelevant to me being a woman."

This has nothing to do with belief. You need something we call a dictionary.

Oxford Dictionaries says woman = adult human female.
Merriam-Webster says woman = adult female human being.

Now let's see what "female" means:

Oxford Dictionaries says female = the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes.
Merriam-Webster says female = the sex that can produce young or lay eggs.

In other words, being female isn't something that's in your head, that anyone can become just by believing they are female. You are demonstrably wrong and your "definition" is incorrect.

alison I don't think that's transphobic.

Queen I genuinely don't see where I've used hate speech. Where have I? I've already commented on the fact that I do now see the issues with using the term TERF and will no longer use it.

And I'm a cis woman, not a ciswoman. I'm not sure what you mean by not having a horse in this race?

I am a woman because I HAVE THE BIOLOGICAL EQUIPMENT OF A WOMAN

The crack team of Butler and Beauvoir would disagree with you on that one, ICan!

Myrtle do you feel "comfortable having a female gender" when you are sexually harrassed on the street or find out you are being paid less than the men you work with or joking told you can't park a car or whatever myriad of sexist occurrences you will have had in your life?

HopALong no, you and the woman who was MAAB are both women. You are cisgender, she is transgender, but you are both women. I don't think you are a ciswoman as opposed to just a woman - cis is an adjective.

Seven but that's because of misogyny based on an incorrect assumption about my gender, not because my gender is somehow wrong. If I am sexually harassed on the street, it is the fault of the man for being a misogynist, not me identifying as having a female gender.

myrtle I don't see where HopAlong has ID'd her internal gender landscape. Have I missed it somewhere?

How do you know she is cisgender?

And I believe you are talking horse shit.

Some things we believe, are true. Others, not so much.

Cis implies that gender is binary. Biologically I am a woman. There is not one set gender identity alligned with woman hood. I don't know if you are deliberately ignoring the point. When you say ciswoman you are saying that I must be the socially constructed gender of woman. That is just... it's offensive, simplistic and downright idiotic.

alison56 - Tara Hewitt is one of those people that I reserve the right to refer to as he and him because he has rescinded his right to be treated nicely by feminists.

No it's misogyny based on a correct assumption about your sex.

And where have I blamed you for being sexually harassed?

Myrtle, as you are so keen to rewrite, not just biology but also the dictionary. How do you see biology lessons in the future?

Because you are telling me that being a woman is something very different to what it is.

I am a woman because I am the female of my species'

'no you're not you are a woman because you identify as one'

this is just in complete denial of what the word 'woman' and 'female' actually mean. So please, how do we teach biology in this new 'hip' world where woman doesnt mean woman and female doesnt mean female?

Buffy, hmm, I'm a bit rusty here, but let's see. Isn't that attracted-to-men, and outside the gender binary of feeling either like a woman or a man, but biologically female?

Myrtle if the two options are cis or trans, but there are more than two genders, how does that work?

Is a genderqueer bigender or 3rd gender female bodied person a cis woman or a trans woman?

Buffy if it doesn't help you then feel free not to use those labels. It may help others, it may not.

Me identifying as femme is helpful for me as a queer woman who is mostly in queer circles with lesbian women. I know plenty of queer women who identify as neither butch or femme - I think people should be able to use the labels that are helpful for them, and also people should be able to not use the labels that are unhelpful for them. I would also apply this to cis. However - trans people don't get to not use the term trans - if cis people can not use the term cis, then why do trans people have to use the term trans? Sorry if that's not clear - I mean that it is massively unequal for cis women to be upset at being labelled cis, when trans people don't get a choice.

And claiming that you are a woman because you feel like one, and should thus have access to female only spaces and conversations is the absolute peak of male privilege. And here we see women assimilating that and accepting it and promoting it. Women promoting men's rights to define and control women and their bodies. AGAIN. The carousel of horseshittery literally never ends.

Seven I would say they are neither.

The only thing that gives me hope in this never ending nonsense is that there are so many problems with the design of Tumblr as a platform that it will eventually fall into disuse like Geocities and similar. I am hopeful that the 'understanding' of sex, gender and feminism that Tumblr has popularised will vanish with it.

We could make up a new name for the two reproductive classes, of course. Fertilisers and incubators or something.

But we're still going to struggle with teaching history, literature and religious studies, when people up until a few years ago meant something completely different to what woman and man mean in this brave new world of ours.

And erm, I have never been sure where I stand, because I agree that women are more than Not-Having-Penises, and I understand the worry there.

But, erm, I don't think putting a huge emphasis on uteruses, breasts or anything else is very helpful to women, from a feminist point of view. It rides uncomfortably close to the idea that women with infertility issues aren't "real women" which I am told is an attitude out there, from those who have experienced it.

I had a look at that link, SevenZark and it appears I'm an androsexual, genderqueer female.

I find it interesting that other definitions on there are:

Biological sex: the physical anatomy and gendered hormones one is born with, generally described as male, female, or intersex, and often confused with gender.

Female: a person with a specific set of sexual anatomy (e.g., 46,XX phenotype, vagina, ovaries, uterus, breasts, higher levels of estrogen, fine body hair) pursuant to this label.

Cis-woman: a person who identifies as a woman, presents herself femininely, and has female biological sex, often referred to as simply “woman”

So by those definitions, I am female but not Cis, because I do not present myself femininely 95 days out of 100.

I'd imagine that some people would find those definitions transphobic, (in fact someone has complained in the comments beneath) but to me they make sense.

OK Myrtle - you changed your tune once you realised that TERF was a hateful term. You still used hate speech and you are the only one I have seen do so on these threads. You seem very angry against women who are gender critical - are you really saying that you have no ulterior motive for this?