Central London vs Commuting...advice needed? (Q long, sorry)

[AnelaSunshine]

DH and I have lived in London (Zone 2) all our adult lives and most of our friends are here (though all over London, Essex, Herts etc) and can't really imagine living anywhere else.
We have a nice top floor flat in a great neighbourhood with a shortish walk to the tube. BUT DH still has to allow 50 mins to get to his job in the city (I work from home).
We recently had our flat valued and the estate agent has valued it as significantly more than we paid for it. So we're toying with the idea of taking the money and running. I.e. moving out to somewhere commutable before we start our family.
Our problem is that we're not sure where...as don't really know where to start! We went to look at a house in Sussex at the weekend and there was too little garden for too much money and it was on a very busy road but even going to look felt like "playing at grown-ups" IYKWIM.
I know this is one of those "only we can make the decision" situations but I'd be really grateful to hear from people who've moved out before starting their family or those who stayed in London and why it was good etc etc...I know there is such a wealth of MN opinions out there and I'm really interested in what you think.

Sorry if this is vague, and TIA
Anela

personally, I think alot depends on whether your husband minds commuting

I absolutely hate long commutes so I really miss living in zone 2 from that perspective (we're in zone 6 now) however, dh doesn't mind at all and we have got more space, better schools (though that depends obv where you go).

Sussex sounds like a massive step from central London!

Everyone hates the commute.
Also I think you'll find that even though your flat as been highly valued, so is everywhere else.
The situation in Sussex is the same everywhere

Having said all that, I lived in London for two years. I hated it with a passion.
We live in rural Berkshire now, although I still work on the outskirts of London and have a hideous commute.
I wouldn't go back to London for any money.

Commuting is foul - I spend nearly 4 hours per day commuting, so I know! When you do have a family you will find that you may wish to live somewhere with good local schools. Schools, garden, safe environment are what most people want when they have young children - but when those children get older they will want to be in the big city.

There are cheaper bits of Zone 2, where you could get a bigger place, if you wanted it (assuming you're not already in a cheaper bit) - some of them are quite close to the City (south and east bits).

We're very strongly against the commute - things always go wrong, there are late-night things, there are tube strikes ... being close is much better. But then, DH mostly bikes to work, at least in theory.

yes I agree with Pamina - I think, if you love London and your friends/life is based around it, moving miles away is a massive wrench. Just moving into a more family friendly area (like Sheen, Kingston, Richmond, Twickenham, Greenwich etc.) probably makes more sense though you may find you don't get much more for your money.

I live in Kingston - dh and me both have a 50m commute, Fast trains from Surbiton (which is as near to our house as Kingston station) take 17 mins to Waterloo. I have friends all over London and the vast majority of them, regardless of where they live and where they work have a journey of 45-60 mins. there's something about London that's just like that. Not sure you'd benefit from any difference in house prices but you get clean streets, excellent schools, and lots of open space (Richmond Pk, Bushey Pk, Home Park) and the river. You also get a town centre packed with high street chains, and the temple to consumption that is the Bentall Centre on a Saturday, the ugliest cinema in the whole of London, and a slightly higher than average smattering of snobs in 4-wheel drives...but it's still ok

London is a super place to live child-free or with children, don't move to the country purely for the sake of children you haven't yet got...
Have you talked some ideas through with the friends you mention who are all over outer London/commuterland?
As others have said, there is a middle ground. SE and SW London have pleasant suburbs (with good schools) and lots of housing that, because of its age (ie pre WW2) usually has plenty of garden for your money.
You might lose some of the desirable neighbourhood perks but that's the only way you will make your money go further.
We made this move after our first child was born, trading "up" from a small flat in Blackheath to a twenties semi in New Eltham (zone 3 to 4, but a slightly faster and less crowded commute).
Where we live now is reasonably safe and quiet, not very exciting, but we have nice neighbours, good schools and an OK journey as commutes go.
You really need to decide on some areas then do some in-depth research. If one of you will be giving up WOTH for a while with the children, check out the family-friendly infrastructure - badly lacking for the under 5s in my neighbourhood unfortunately.

We live just inside Zone 3 but v near a tube and mainline station (moved here from our Zone 2 flat 2 years ago). We have a decent size garden and what I would consider a good-size house and we are very happy having not moved out of London, even though we did consider it. The thing that really helps us is that dh cycles to work, and even though his office is right across town (he does Balham to Primrose Hill every day!) it takes him about 40 minutes and keep him fit. On the days that he takes the tube, it takes him about an hour door to door and he is fine with this. It also means that on Thursday and friday he can drop ds1 at school and so get to know his teachers and friends - this would not be possible if he were up to catch the 7.33 into London from the suburbs every day. When I work, I work from home, so again am not faced with commuting issues, but I have found that my local community has been a godsend when at home with small children. My sister moved from Shepherds Bush to Surrey when she was expecting her dd - and she has been v unhappy and longs to move back to London. They have a beautiful house, everything you could dream of, but she has to drive everywhere, she couldn't even go for a walk with her baby in a pram along the road as the road has no pavement and cars cannnot see pedestrians. While there is lots and lots in favour of moving out - space, countryside, ponies(!), freedoms that city children cannot have, you have to be sure that you are the right person to live that life, it's not just about the children. My BIL says he just wants what's best for his dd, but I think you cannot spearate the happiness of the child from that of the mother (or main carer). Sorry, a bit rambly, but hope that helps.

[Marina - I seem to be stalking you today ]

Same problem for us. DH is the one who is more inclined to move. He remembers a great childhood near Reading. He thinks about a bigger place, better schools etc.
I do not disagree, a good/decent school is a must for DD and sometimes I too dream of a farm house, horses, wellies and baking cakes but... I LOVE LONDON!!!
But I feel suffocating if I spend one day without going somewhere. I've lived here 10 years, all my friends are here and there's so much to do. In London I do not feel isolated and motherhood is brilliant too. When it gets a bit too much I go for a walk in the west-end, go to a museum, go to visit friend that run restaurants etc with DD, she's happy and excited and mummy feels she's got a life...
what am I going to do in the country?

Please I'd like to hear from those who loved the big city but they're still enjoying their new home in a not so caotic place.

Sorry I have to agree with Wilbur. An unhappy mum makes an unhappy household, in my case a VERY MISERABLE household!!
so I don't know what's best.

uselessmum (and I'm sure you're not useless!) - it sounds like you would not be happy out of London, although Reading is a big town and there must be a lot going on there. I always think that people who are happiest out of London are those who didn't really use it when they were there - we all know people who live in London but are not museum or theatre or shopping people and of course, why put up with London's problems when you are not turned on by its benefits? I grew up sort of in the country and dh was fully country boy with sheep and everything, and we do miss the freedom of our childhoods, but we could not afford the houses we were brought up in, so we could never really recreate that anyway. It's a tough call to make, and if you do decide to go, I would recommend renting for a bit to see if it's going to work.

Totally agree with wilbur here notuselessmum (hello wilbur). If you care enough about London's cultural assets to be visiting them lots now then I would dig your toes in hard before leaving. Being able to take my children on a short, familiar train journey to the National Portrait Gallery, or the Museum of London, or to panto at the Old Vic...it really does matter to me and my family. The countryside can seem temptingly clean and safe for smaller children, but from 8 upwards I suspect you spend lots of time in the car ferrying them about over considerable distances.
I agree that there is a cultural renaissance happening in lots of Britain's larger towns in terms of live performance, touring exhibitions and so on - but there isn't the choice to just mosey on out and see what's happening. Catching the Bolshoi or the RSC has to be a military-precision operation!
Tell your dh there are plenty of good schools in London, state and private. Tell him you shall not be moved

Thanks for all the replies, had forgotten how quickly you can all post!

Marina, think that it is the point, are we moving for a baby we haven't even got yet?!

I suppose that both things are so difficult to imagine until they happen - life in "the country" and life with a baby. I have nieces, nephews and godchildren, but you know, you can give them back

DH has commuted before for around 18 months and so knows what's involved. He does work v long hours but I think that maybe those would be less if he knew he couldn't easily jump in a company cab late at night to get home.

I think DH is keen to get everything in place before we start trying for a baby (and the MNers on the TTC threads have already politely told me to get a wriggle on as I'm nearly 29 )

So much to think about. gulp. Any other advice/opinions gratefully received.

Depending on where your dh works, it is sometimes quicker to commute into London from outside by train than on the tube, etc. There have been a few threads recently about people thinking of moving to Hertfordshire and commuting in on the Thamesline line. I know people commuting on that line to Farringdon or City Thameslink stations with a home to work journey of 45minutes door to door. Would those stations be any good for your dh? However, house prices are high in Hertfordshire too because of the good train service. One of the things that often swings it for people are good schools - but you don't need to think about that yet.

I personally prefer to live in a lively largish town, with lots to do, within easy reach of London, than live in a dull London suburb -probably more so now that we have kids and our social life is based here. However when we moved first it was before kids and still worked/socialised a lot in London at that stage.

I don't think I could ever live in the depths of the country though - I'm too used to being able to take a 5 min stroll to the high street if I want to go for a coffee!

Don't bank on him cutting his hours when he has a longer commute anela - the workload and the workplace expectations won't just suddenly disappear IME. If you have a husband who habitually works late you stay within the M25 and preferably in a gold-carat family oriented suburb like East Dulwich, or Crouch End, or Wimbledon...then you will have a good chance of an independent social life for those times when he is not back in time to chat to when the children are in bed.
Don't run the risk of ending up like wilbur's sis .

Or do as KTeepee suggests - somewhere like Guildford or St Albans. NOT deep countryside or a little village!

Or try an untrendy central bit and cycling like me - I do southern bit of Kentish Town to High Holborn down incredibly good cycle lanes in 20 minutes. I like my commute! We also have a large garden to boot.

Does your dh work near a mainline station? I have friends who live outside of London & get to work quicker than I do (zone 3) because they can catch a fast mainline into work.
More often than not you'll find you have to move quite far out or to less popular areas to really buy a considerably bigger property. Anywhere in commuter distance is going to be pricey.

My BIL commutes to the City (2 tubestops from Waterloo) from Winchester, only takes 50mins-1hr. Anywhere up the line from there would be even quicker.

sussex is not much cheaper than London these days and totally different unless you go to Brighton itself and that really isnt any cheaper than london and is actually a bit seedy undereath all the glitz and reputation, not a good place to bring up kids really unless you have over half a million to spend atleast and you can go to one of the good areas

We moved from Kingston to Herts about 8 years ago and dh has a commute of similar time now but a much pleasanter one (but more expensive). Probably takes about 50 mins in total. He drives to station, gets a train and then walks to office at other end. Used to be bus, train, drain, walk. It does make him work more sensible hours I think - because he can't just turn up and expect to get a train - he has to know when they leave and then aim for one or be hanging around for 30 mins if he misses it. Also doesn't do the late night bit so much. But this might be also due to age and having children. We moved here for my (then) job. It was an area we had no idea about and wouldn't have thought of but are very happy here.

I always suggest herne hill to anyone who commutes to the city!
It used to be deeply uncool, but no more! A few minutes commute on Thameslink, great shops, bakeries, delis, squeezed in between the fabulous Brockwell Park and Dulwich park, walking distance to edgy Brixton and the Ritzy cinema, Brockwell Lido on your doorstep, with swimming from 6.45 am through the summer, great children's activities and networks, a local GastroPub recommended by Jay Rayner, an area teeming with media types - and MN-ers! Some excellent schools if you move to the right street.
You can afford a cab home if you stay v late in town.

And it's really close (and cheap)to the city by Thameslink and the other trains that go through.