Central London vs Commuting...advice needed? (Q long, sorry)

[AnelaSunshine]

DH and I have lived in London (Zone 2) all our adult lives and most of our friends are here (though all over London, Essex, Herts etc) and can't really imagine living anywhere else.
We have a nice top floor flat in a great neighbourhood with a shortish walk to the tube. BUT DH still has to allow 50 mins to get to his job in the city (I work from home).
We recently had our flat valued and the estate agent has valued it as significantly more than we paid for it. So we're toying with the idea of taking the money and running. I.e. moving out to somewhere commutable before we start our family.
Our problem is that we're not sure where...as don't really know where to start! We went to look at a house in Sussex at the weekend and there was too little garden for too much money and it was on a very busy road but even going to look felt like "playing at grown-ups" IYKWIM.
I know this is one of those "only we can make the decision" situations but I'd be really grateful to hear from people who've moved out before starting their family or those who stayed in London and why it was good etc etc...I know there is such a wealth of MN opinions out there and I'm really interested in what you think.

Sorry if this is vague, and TIA
Anela

Blu - you do a very good sales pitch. I really do think my heart is in SE London. I love the river and Richmond Park dearly but crave decent delis and a little bit more va va voom. and some mums at school that I have a bit more in common with would be nice too. hey ho.

I used to live in Herne Hill, but couldn't afford it when we needed a bigger house. I am pining. I can see it's benefits from afar! And visit the new Blackbird bakery opposite the station for a treat! And the children's bookshop and cafe provencal, and one of the best fish and chip shops in London.....

But I still live near Herne Hill. Across the park on the slummier side

I want to move to Herne Hill now, sounds fab.

Yes, Herne Hill does sound tempting - will have to investigate though not sure how helpful Thameslink is as DH works at Liverpool Street but it's really not an area I know well at all. Have always been a North of the River girl but am prepared to be open minded about things.

(We were looking in Sussex in the fairyland idea that he could jump on a bus from London Bridge)

God so much to think about.

I moved to the Surrey/sussex borders a year ago from SE London, in fact v close to Herne Hill and i love it. I could not have made the move even two years ago, I just wasn't ready. I had lived in London all of my life and couldn't see myself as a country girl. When DH and I met we lived in the City and gradually moved further and further out into the London suburbs with each preganacy.

The biggest pro that I haddn't reckoned for was the lack of fear - living in London you get used to locking everything up, preventing/preparing for burglery/mugging etc. Obviously we're still sensible and locking, but I can't tell you how lovely it is knowing you can pop to the shop without feeling threatened.

The schools are wonderful in the country and I know HH v.well and there is only one decent school in the area and another that people tell you is good, but actually isn't.

However it has taken me about a year to get used to it and to make new friends, it was v hard in the beginning. I do need to have London fix every now and then, but that's not difficult. DD commutes every day and hates the evenings, but likes the mornings. He works v long hours and thought he'd leave earlier and work on the train, but it hasn't happened like that.

The house prices here are about the same as where we moved from, but you can often get a great garden - ours is huge even though the house is fairly small.

No graffit, no grey, lots of green, no pollution only lovely smells, less dust.

gow - has to be said that is one thing I like about round here - I have never not for one second given a second thought to coming home late at night and I have on countless occassions left our back door wide open (not deliberately - but it's nice to know it can be done)

You're lucky I never felt that, lots of neighbours were burgled so I always worried.

And gow, you made the move after the LOs arrived? Where you are sounds positively idyllic. (sigh)

the thing is you need to factor commute time on top of work time so if your dh works long hours then it can be a real prob. I commuted for 1.5-2hrs each way each day for 2 years and it was bloody hard. Its tiring, draining and the trains in the UK are not 100% reliable so its also stressful.

Best bet is to look at how much of a commute he'd/you;d be willing to put up with, try to actually do the commute in to London one day to see how busy it is (makes a big diff if you get a seat or not if you commute any distance) and then go from there. Godalming area is nice as is Winchester. BUT don't forget that commuting costs quite a bit too - I was spending about UK3.5k a year just to get to and from work.

I have seen friends move out of London for a better life and end up with a trashed marriage. The commuting can put a huge strain on everyone. The commuter may end up staying overnight in London at times when work is demanding. Some people go on to get a Pied a Terre and before long it's an affair with the secretary....

If you want to live in the country and your partner can get a job nearby then fine. You haven't even started a family yet and that brings its own strains so I couldn't recommend a long commute.

I love London with kids... playmates on the doorstep, a million things to do, corner shops galore, a short walk to school. Once kids get into double figures they hate the country anyway and just want to be in the local shopping centre.

think it does depend on whether you "use" London or not - we do and DS loves the Transport Museum, Tate Modern etc, we often have a Sunday stroll along the river and use Horniman Musuem and Imp War Museum as rainy day standbys (free you see). DH has a scooter to get to the west end from SE London (near Herne Hill!!). If job is in Liverpool Street and commutinmg is an option then Essex your best bet. Note that you need to check carefully whther town served by fast or slow train - ie Brentwood nice but the fast trains go from Shenfield. And bear in mind that houses walking distance from a commuter station cost loads. You will either pay loads for a house, or if you get a non walking distsnce place either pay tons for car parking (£10 a day at some stations) plus insurance tax etc on 2nd car (buses just not as frequent/cheap out of town) or do what my DH did spend half an hour to 40 minutes each day in the back of the car waiting for daddy to come off the train. Grim - 2 children in thier PJs waiting every night and then queing to get out of the car park with all the other mummies picking up daddies. Saying all this my mates alllive in Essex with Dhs who commute, and we may well do it in the future. But I know I have made many more friends since having child in London, beacuse most people don't have that network to rely on of parents and school mates close by so you have to make an effort and get out there. Having children in London has transformed our lives and I truly think the walk to the park/library/shops/church/clinic helps as in Essex everyone drives everyone so there's less chance of bumping into smeone nad having impromtu coffee etc. good luck with decison making

We moved from Highgate (zone 2/3) when DS was 1 (4 years ago) to Richmond (zone very far out but not quite the sticks). Richmond is enormously expensive but the state primary schools are fab & free of course. It's full of families so it is easier here with young children, lots of green spaces, river, good shops, facilities and everyone is very "nice". DH does a city job but conveniently based in W.End. He gets the bus to Hammersmith & tube to wherever it is. Takes about 30 mins I think but he leaves v.early.

I've been a London girl since I was 18 and I must say my heart is still in norf London. There's a buzz that doesn't exist here and people are more varied and interesting, to me (no offence to anyone) .

I grew up in a small village but I still wouldn't move from zone 2 to the middle of the countryside. Friends have done that and found it a huge shock and have always ended up moving again to a town/small city. At least 2 friends have come back to the smoke! Maybe you could have a baby and then see how you feel? You could always try renting out of London for a bit so you aren't so tied.

I lived in London for 12 years before moving out to the "country" just before having my first baby. We both commuted back in to work. In theory the journey should have been ok but the reality was a nightmare-late trains,cancelled trains,over-crowded trains etc. Also once I had my baby I felt very isolated. I had to drive everywhere and I generally missed city life. I never settled and eventually moved again(not to London but another city)where life started again. For other people moving to the country will have been fantastic but I found it a complete culture shock and will never do it again.

We moved out from New Malden to Mid Sussex before having DS. We were lucky and had made quite a bit on our flat and so could afford a nice house, garden etc. We were both anxious about the move but we were moving back to an area where both sets of parents live and where we had grown up so that was an advantage as we knew the area. We both commuted and had far fewer problems with cancellations etc than we did travelling in from Mew Malden or Colliers Wood on the Northern Line. I don't think I was late for work once after we moved down but I was loads before! And the commute wasn't that much longer 1hr door to door with a seat and on air conditioned trains!
I think if you are thinking about having kids, the move out is good, but the most important thing is being near people love you, you can lean on and who can support you initially (and who don't mind seeing you in floods of tears for no reason in a milk stained nightie after 2 hours sleep) and who you can share them with afterwards

Oh this is exactly the problem we are having. I was bought up in zone 1 - yup it happens there are schools and families there. Spent my twenties and thirties in zone two and now my dp wants to move out to zone 3 or 4 with a possible view to leaving London in the long term.

I'm not keen on any of this. I think there are a number of assumptions that underpin his thinking that annoys me:

1. Big cities are not fit places to raise children - obviously I get defesnive as this is where I and a lot of my friends grew up. And we are on the whole productive citizens and managed to ignore the allure of drugs and crime that all young city children are continually tempted with.

But also cities are not or rather shouldn't be the preserve of the young or rich. It is a place for families and if everyone with children who can afford to ships out then what happens to the city itself. I guess I feel its a version of white flight - cities are fine for your youth but grown ups with responsiblities move to the country.

2. That he feels the countryside will offer community in a way that London can't. Again I'm not sure how he forms this opinion. He works 12 hour days. The only redeeming feature is he cycles so he's home in 20 minutes so does get to see our ds. An extended commute will finish this. Equally he only really sleeps in the house during the week. Its me and the ds who know all the local mums, the groups that run, the music, dancing, nature walks etc that are all within 15 minutes of here. I guess my point is the same as lots have said - its a about the main carer being happy. You are going to have to live in that community - more than your dp. Make sure it works for you.

3. You can adapt life in London to work for you with a child. As others have said could you get your DP to cycle. It really does speed up movement round the city. Equally London is a great city for walking.

Finally I would agree with what others have said about Londons cultural life. If you enjoy that then will the compensations of the burbs e.g. cheaper housing/safer areas/green spaces be sufficent compensation for that? Again only you can make that decision.

Anyway I shall stop rambling - having made such a defence of London I still have my moments when I think will I ever leave this city? Sure a change is as a good as a .....

We live just outside of Wimbledon in zone 4. Its the best of both worlds for us as we have swapped a 2 bed flat in Wimbledon for a 3 bed semi in a nice green area. Waterloo is a 22 minute train ride so it takes me 50 mins to get to work door to door. I wouldnt live in central London (I used to love in N1) as I like the fcat that we can get a train to London so easily or a walk round the corner takes us to a field with horses in. I think Susses is a big step maybe you should consider looking just outside London.

I used to commute to London from Bath which is not as horrid as it could have been - the train journey is 1hour and 10 then the nightmare bit was from Paddington to Whitfield St (back of TCR)where my office was - it was survivable ( is that a word??!)trains ran every half an hour BUT ...

As other posters have pointed out all it takes is one small spanner and it all goes tits .. tube strike, rail strike, suicide on the line etc.

Another BUT ...

Bath is lovely, cultural and you still get museums, galleries, great restaurants ( in fact the whole city is a museum) and if you play your cards right and pick the right area - more house for your money, fab schools etc

It is a right poser - but as a previous poster said - how about renting somewhere to see if a move out of London would suit you ... Good Luck !!

hello- have you thought about a more radical alternative? Like moving to another city (so you still get the benefit of city life) but one that is more affordable (so you can get a bigger space in a nice area).
We are currently moving to Bristol, which has loads going for it. Of course don't know how much friends your Dh's job would influence a big move but its worth a thought....

Hettie - Bristol is Fab - you'll love it - Welcome to the West Country !!

Well, DH is really only City based and what he does means he can't move jobs very easily - or relocate.

I think we are feeling a bit like a change is as good as a rest but do think that deepest Sussex is probably a change too far.

Bought a guide to "CommuterLand" at the bookshop yesterday and going to view some more houses, this time in Herts on the line that comes in to Moorgate tomorrow.

More soulsearching ahead I think.

I think Hettie's on to something. Moving from zone 1 to zone 6 or whatever isn't really leaving London at all. And, believe me, you can live beyond zone 6 and have a life that doesn't involve a 50-mile drive to the nearest supermarket, playgroup or railway station. It's not all green fields and cultural wasteland north of Watford, you know!
Hettie's compromise of city life in another smaller city is great - although there are obviously work issues to get around, and moving away from friends/family can be tough, of course. I've made loads of new friends since having children, though, and they're all fab.
I lived in London as a single girl and it's a great place to live - but I wouldn't want to bring my kids up there. We now live in a small market town with all the benefits of 'country' living but close to an excellent road network and fast trains to London. (If you really want them! )
Good luck with your decision - and with starting your family!