Jordan giving birth "live" on the internet what do you think?

[jsmummy]

The headline in yesterday's News of the Screws (we buy that and 2 broadsheets, but guess which one always gets read first?!) was that Jordan is going to give birth live on the internet. What do people think?

But they are addicts so it is beyond their control. They need help, support and education rather than criticism.

Croppy - yes, I agree that they need help and support. I wasn't criticising, just trying to point out that some people do act in a way that has a high risk of harming their unborn child. I agree that no mother deliberately sets out to harm her child - just some are more able to act wisely than others.

As a hack myself (freelance, and no, I don't work for the red tops) I have to say that IME for every exaggeration in the press there is another cover up. For example, when Paula Yates was all over the celeb mags posing with Tiger and going on about what a fantastic mother she was, every journalist knew that she was in a shocking state, awash with vodka and heroin, had a house of full of dealers and was frequently so out of it that Tiger Lily was at risk. There are plenty of other stories like this. I don't like kiss'n'tells etc but the libel laws in this country are very strict and if you said someone was drunk and pregnant when they weren't, they could sue and win a lot of money quite easily. I think someone on this thread with personal knowledge of Jordan implied that everything you read was true. I'm not trying to imply that her poor little boy's disability was anything other than a terrible, freak disaster that could happen to anyone, I feel for him very much and do actually feel sympathy for her, simply because it is such a devastating thing to happen. I hope she will change her ways and be able to give her son all the love and care he so desperately needs. Motherhood can transform people, but, as Paula Yates proved, it doesn't always.

But even if the things said about jordan ae true they need to be seen in the context of someone who has no doubt been exploited by the media etc and actually probably feels pretty worthless and insecure.

But even if the things said about jordan ae true they need to be seen in the context of someone who has no doubt been exploited by the media etc and actually probably feels pretty worthless and insecure.

But even if the things said about jordan ae true they need to be seen in the context of someone who has no doubt been exploited by the media etc and actually probably feels pretty worthless and insecure.

Bit sceptical about the concept of Jordan being exploited by the media - she seems to be pretty keen on being exploited to me. You could even say she exploited the media for her own ends because she approached them not the other way round. Indeed, she seems to have devoted her whole life to being famous for nothing but her body and has had umpteen operations to ensure she made a pretty good living out of it. I really think you can hardly blame the media for 'exploiting' her when she was practically battering down the doors of the Star and FHM begging to be in them. There surely comes a point when adults - no matter how low their self-esteem - have to take responsibility for their own lives and how they conduct themselves. If you do everything you possibly can to be famous, and make a good living out of it, it seems a bit rich to bleat when there's a photo of you, falling down drunk, in the papers. Personally, I wouldn't much like to be famous but it is very easy to live an anonymous life if you prefer it that way.

Don't know much about Jordan, but I get the impression that fame (even if c list) is all she's ever known as an adult. Perhaps she's forgotton how to be anonymous and ordinary?

OK, it looks like there's lots of proof that Jordan courts the press, but is this really Jordan herself, or others pushing and manipulating her? Is she sensible enough to see through this?

What a twisted irony in Jordan wanting the world to watch the birth of her son, and then her son being born blind.

I think I agree with you, aloha, about the exploitation thing. Although I am naturally cynical about the media (sorry), it takes 2, as they say, and Jordan's been in the game for too long a time....

The other thing I think is that it's too easy to blame the papers. Ultimately we (and I mean the tabloid reading public, not us at Mumsnet) have to take some responsibility. If we buy the papers that publish, condemn, expose etc then we're fuelling the fire. They only exist because people buy them in huge numbers (according to most blokes it's just for the sport!). But then again, I'm a hypocrit because I still like to know all of the showbiz goss, but just don't buy the Sun.

Anyway, I do feel for baby Harvey and Jordan. Unfortunately I think she's going to get more grief than symapthy because of her public image. Hope it goes well for the whole family.

I do think Jordan is naive, but it doesn't take a science degree to realise that wild partying can seriously affect your child. I'm sure Katie Price is a lovely person, and I don't like judging anybody, but as aloha has said, she has not denied anything that has been said about her and was quoted yesterday actually admitting to doing some wild partying whilst pregnant. I think she just enjoyed the renewed media attention that circulated around her.

I have read that her baby's condition can be related to drinking and taking drugs whilst you are pregnant, or can be genetic or can just be causes unknown. She claims the doctors have reassured her that it is causes unknown so we will have to leave it at that.

I do hope she can now grow up a bit and focus on her baby, although I am saddened that she is still telling all to the papers, for her baby's sake I hope she keeps him out of the spotlight and allows him to have a normal a life as possible. We also mustn't forget Dwight Yorke in all of this, where was he whilst she was pregnant? My dh did all he could to support me and I realise that giving up drinking is hard, it was a nightmare for me, he should have been there supporting her!

aloha - agree that the libel laws are strict - but it is extremely difficult and notoriously expensive to bring a case against the newspapers. You cannot get legal aid for libel (not that Jordan would qualify) and even if you get a no win no fee agreement (which is unlikely for this sort of case) you also have to pay for all disbursements and then, if case goes ahead, insure against cost of losing. This insurance itself can cost £10K upwards. So suddenly what seems an easy legal battle becomes impossible unless you have money to start with. Alternatively, you risk funding the process yourself, losing and having to pay both your own and the defence costs.
When you take out a claim the defence is informed how you plan to fund it. So the papers know when a case is self funded and tend to drag proceedings out for as long as possible in the hope that the claimant will run out of money and have to walk away.
Frankly, the law as it stands protects only the rich.

Ok, Jordan may have been banging on newspaper?s doors but it is my view that the media (and us as consumers of the media) are responsible for creating this dreadful tendency for ?nobodies? to be made famous on the basis of very little talent, intellect or any other notable feature. These people are heavily promoted and accorded a high profile until the media collectively decides that they are no longer flavour of the month when they are unceremoniously dumped. Paula Yates is an excellent example; everybody knew the truth but the media decided it was in their interests to pretend otherwise.

I doubt Jordan had the brains to understand the long term consequences of her actions in courting publicity. As we all know, people who are valued on their looks alone tend to end up with very little self esteem and this seems to be what happened to her.Why on earth was she famous in the first place????

Agree totally with your comments on libel Willow2.

Yes but Jordan is not denying any of this - she even admitted it all yesterday and said she was worried that she was to blame for her baby's blindness (well we would all blame ourselves wouldn't we?). She has given countless interviews, been pictured in Playboy just weeks after giving birth and so on, so she does court attention. There has obviously been something seriously wrong at some time in her life that she needs to be loved so much, and for that I have the greatest sympathy. But those around her should have helped her more, supported her more. The photographs that were published showed her in an awful state whilst heavily pregnant, didn't her family think to intervene at all? And what kind of friends would encourage her to do this? In all fairness to the press, whilst they did report on this, none of them gave her much heavy criticism for it. She was asked why she was drinking so much and she said that it was because she was making the most of her freedom whilst she still had it.

The press have been careful not to go too much into her behaviour whilst pregnant, they have simply reported on it and left the reader to make their own mind up. I really do hope she gets the help she needs now, maybe that baby really will change her life.

On the Paula Yates front, wasn't she ok until Michael Hutchence died? Didn't she just lose it then? In her autobiography she said she was teetotal and didn't do drugs (when it was written anyway, ages before Hutchence). I sort of thought she was a 'good' mother to her other 3 girls until then. I had some sympathy for Paula Yates I suppose. But no, I don't believe everything I read.

Tigermoth, hadn't thought about it before you mentioned it but yes it is a terrible irony for Jordan. IMO she's a silly tart but I still wouldn't wish what's happened to her on anyone. Hey, if it was as a result of her behaviour in pregnancy (and let's face it, she's the only one who knows for sure what she drank/snorted etc) then she's the one who has to live with the consequences. Poor, sad, silly woman.

I also think there is a terrible irony that here is a woman who became "famous" because (some) men like to look at her body. Finally, a male has come in to her life who will hopefully love her unconditionally yet will never see her. I feel terribly sorry for her and her family, whatever the cause.

Re. Paula Yates: I get the impression from all that I've read that she was a very needy person from childhood (and who wouldn't be given her upbringing) and Bob Geldof provided stability. She then revelled in being a mum and thus wrote all the books about how everyone should be a stay-at-home/bake-bread/play-dressing-up type parent while she was doing it herself. However, when Michael Hutchence came along she was bowled over and it was he who introduced her to the hard drugs and heavy drinking. This is one of the reasons Bob G hated him.
I feel desperately sorry for Jordan as she's a victim of her own making. She's craved attention and gained it by flaunting her body and partying wildly. Who saw that programme when she went "undercover" as plain Katie the stable girl to see how long it would take for her cover to be blown? She ended up blowing it herself because she wanted attention so much. In the past few months she was probably suffering from what a lot of us do when we get pregnant - that we'll be unattractive and not be known for ourselves anymore - just someone's mum. And to someone like Jordan/Katie that is a much bigger deal for her than most of us becasue she has little else. I'm not condoning her behaviour when pregnant - I don't really know what she did or didn't get up to as I don't read newspapers anymore - I just hope she has the strength of character to come out of this a better person and not go under like Paula Yates.

I received a press release this morning from RNIB (I'm a journalist) who've 'sent a message of support' to her over her son's optic nerve hypoplasia (a reduction in the number of optic nerve fibres within the optic nerve)...BUT they also include : ' medical opinion is divided but there is a suggestion that in a very small number of cases the excessive use of alcohol or the use of certain drugs (eg cocaine) during pregnancy could be a contributory factor teo the condition developing'

It says that "Optic nerve hypoplasia may occur in infants with foetal alcohol syndrome or whose mothers used crack cocaine during pregnancy" in this article too.

Much as I normally have little time for publicity-seekers such as Jordan or Paula Yates (I think her books criticising working mothers really do look like a sick joke now) I do agree we have to remember the role of the blokes in all this. Dwight Yorke strikes me as a thick, ignorant monster, whose first words to Jordan after she had their baby were 'you look rough' and then he demanded a DNA test because the baby looked 'too white'. And Michael Hutchence seemed positively satanic in the way he boasted of corrupting women and got Paula Yates onto heroin and drink so quickly after they met (though, again, I do think grown women who are in their 30s and have three children should bloody well think a bit harder before they start on hard drugs, no matter what their long-ago childhood was like). Bob Geldof seems like an absolute angel in comparison and I agree that the way the courts treated him was abominable. Oh, and I liked R4 presenter Peter White's feature in the Mail today about being a success despite having no sight. In his case it was genetic, as his brother has exactly the same condition.

Gillw and Bundle, when I read your messages about the possibilty of a link between the baby's blindness and Jordan's alcohol and drugs consumption I felt a huge wave of pity for her and her son. Even if Jordon is as stupid as she is painted, even if her son's blindness was not caused by her lifestyle, what a thought for her to live with. Did she court publicity when pregnant knowing that she'd pay for it like this? Poor unlucky her.

Aloha, I agree with you on Paula Yates - no matter her childhood torments, she was in her 30's with three children, intelligent, with a successful career, so what was she thinking of when she met Michael Hutchence?

Hmmm... am I saying I blame Paula Yates for her lifestyle choices far more than I blame Jordan, because Paula seems more intelligent? Need to think about this more...

Tigermoth, Maybe Paula Yates was simply a different kind of victim? Know what you mean tho about it all needing some thought. I think once you actually have children, when they are your day to day reality, most people tend to change and for this reason I find Paula's behaviour more incomprehensible than Jordan's (alleged) goings on.

Mind you, I did some really stupid things before I had my kids so I can't throw too many stones, but I feel very sorry for all involved.

I agree Tigermoth, I thought it was just a wee bit pointed, how RNIB felt they had to mention it, even though I'm sure no one could prove a link in her case - or anyone else's. I'm sure when we see our own children getting so much pleasure out of their vision - and all their other senses - it makes us feel incredibly lucky, and very sorry for people like Jordan.

The book I read by Paula Yates (the fun dont stop), didn't criticise working mothers at all. It was just full of good fun advice and some really good ideas for entertaining pre-school kids. I found it quite heartbreaking to read as she clearly meant every word she said about the joy of snuggling up with your kids on the sofa eating chocs, or going on long walks and finding 'treasures' to bring home etc etc.

And Jordan doesn't need any kind of implied criticism from the RNIB, there are plenty of babies born to crack-addicted women who aren't blind for gods sake and anyway who ever said Jordan was on crack? Having a crack habit is a bit different to snorting the odd line of coke - NOT saying that that is fine when you are pregnant but lets not lump all drugs together.

Baby Harvey shows no sign of having fetal alcohol syndrome either which as I understand it manifests in very distinct ways, including a particular appearance.

I feel very very sorry for Jordan and I'm sure she will blame herself for it but it is more than likely to be a genetic accident rather than anything else.

Hmm, I distinctly remember her on tv, twiddling her hair, crossing her legs and wittering on about how you had to stay at home with your kids...