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Original poster

DD has just joined Brownies and I have an issue with the promise...

239 replies

BonyM · 22/03/2006 22:10

Now, as far as I was aware, Brownies/Guides is not affiliated to any religion, however the part of the Brownie promise is "to love my god".

As humanists, dh and I do not have a god, and dd1 is aware of this (although the christian religion is more or less a "given" as far as her school is concerned). Tbh dh wasn't 100% comfortable with her joining Brownies in the first place as it was his perception that they were "religious", although I had assured them that they weren't. DD was very keen though as a lot of her friends go, and I believed that any religious input would be minimal.

We (particularly dh) are uncomfortable at the notion of her promising to "love my god". DD1 is almost 8 and doesn't really know whether to believe in a god or not (due I guess to the conflicting views she has - ours and the schools).

The question is whether to make an issue of it, risking her feeling alienated from her peers and/or embarrassed, or to just ignore it with the view that whatever she is told at this age, she will make her own mind up eventually anyway.

What would others do in this situation?

OP posts:
moondog · 22/03/2006 22:57

Delusions of grandeur and inflated sense of self.
I promise you Bony,dear old Brown Owl couldn't give a flying f**ck whether your dd crosses her fingers,legs or eyes for that matter.

Just get with it.
If she wants to join let her.
If she doesn't go and..oh I don't know,fashion a lute out of a hawthorn bush and howl at the moon or whatever it is you lot do.

CountessDracula · 22/03/2006 22:57

Quite, you DON'T REMEMBER IT! AND NEITHER WILL SHE!!!!

Hattie05 · 22/03/2006 22:57

Ok so giving your child freedom to choose his belief is different to encouraging him to tell white lies to appear 'socially acceptable'.

E.g. i envisaged you were meaning telling your children to pretend they are whatever religion the people they are mixing with just so they 'fit in'.
But you don't mean that, do you?

CountessDracula · 22/03/2006 22:57

whoops sorry about shouting

colditz · 22/03/2006 22:57

Badgers is St John's Ambulance. age 6 to 10, I think. we used to play with banfages, and resuscitate (sp?) those scary doll things. And we used to do potato painting too.

CountessDracula · 22/03/2006 22:58

I left brownies because it clashed with the series of carry on films on Weds nights Blush

and they were all square

moondog · 22/03/2006 22:58

lol at utter incongruity of buggering about with potatoes in first aid class.

ScummyMummy · 22/03/2006 22:59

Sorry to be negative and I'm sure it's just an unhappy coincidence but all the St John's ambulance people I've met have been really strange...

moondog · 22/03/2006 23:00

A mad girl at uni tried to force me to go with her.
Once tried to lure me with the offer of a free evening watching 'Cats',whilst being on duty in the West End.

I tell ya,I was there like a shot.

colditz · 22/03/2006 23:01

I know, it was bizarre. I think Mrs Kettle, who ran it, just used to get bored. We would do a few weeks of first aid, then one week she would bring a load of paints in, or chocolate and cornflakes to get us to 'bake'.

She was lovely, we had a great time!

SleepyJess · 22/03/2006 23:01

Well you all have very good legitimate reasons for having reservations and I can't really argue with them! :) However, my advice (if I am qualified to give it in a parental capacity) would be to let your girls go for as long as they seem to want to and enjoy it etc. They do really nice things and get lots of exciting opportunities and they are probably too young to get all bogged down with the religion of it all (such as there is). And it's a good place to make new friends outside of school.

And God I am SO intolerent of people PARPING just because THEY have discussed something before.. or read a discussion on it before...! Go Away Then! SJ runs....

edam · 22/03/2006 23:01

Oh no, not at all! Socially acceptable white lie = not making a big fuss about it in public. Unless ds spontaneously decided to say something, of course.

ScummyMummy · 22/03/2006 23:02

Mrs Kettle. What a great name.:)

arfissimo · 22/03/2006 23:03

I was in the woodcraft folk. No idea why mum chose it although I suspect it was more to do with the fact that it was close to the house than any eco-politico conviction. I loved it but always wanted to be in the brownies because the uniform was cooler.

I'm also not religious, in fact pretty anti-religion but I would be happy for DD to join brownies. At a very simplistic level discussing the vow would help her understand other people's faith.

colditz · 22/03/2006 23:04

Yes, all the adults are odd. Great fun for little people who like to play Doctors and Nurses though, because they let us play with real first aid stuff, and practice on each other.

Original poster
BonyM · 22/03/2006 23:04

moondog - "whatever you lot do" ???? Grin. Trust me, I don't do anything "weird", a humanist is just an athiest who believes in leading a good life basically. And "humanist" sounds nicer than "atheist" imho Wink.

Sorry, the whole thing seems to be getting blown out of proportion - I think I was maybe worrying about it more than appropriate because dh is so anti-religion (the product of a strict catholic upbringing!). If I'd been that bothered I wouldn't have let her go in the first place.

People seem to be assuming I'm all sorts of things that I'm not - hypocrite, zealot, social upstart(!), so I'm going to parp my own thread now and go to bed. Grin.

OP posts:
ScummyMummy · 22/03/2006 23:05

Night bonym. I've enjoyed your thread very much, if it's any comfort.:)

moondog · 22/03/2006 23:05

Only arsing about Bony.
I know aBOUT THE hUMANIST MOVEMNET. vERY NOBLE. i LIKE IT. (oOPS)

SleepyJess · 22/03/2006 23:06

I am assuming only that you a bony, Bony.. Grin.. which, in my pre menstrual bloated state is quite enough to make me hate you! Grin

colditz · 22/03/2006 23:06

Mrs Kettle was great. She had a natural love of children, and never told us off when we were being pains in the arses.

It's actually a very common name round here, the phone book is full of Kettles!

spidermama · 22/03/2006 23:06

Agree about the parping SJ. It's rude, meaningless and the people who do it rarely bugger off like they're supposed to.

Sorry they've been so rude to you bonyM. I think you have a point, but I'd be inclined to explain the whole deal to your dd. She can make up her own mind what the oath would mean to her or how she could interpret it to mean something acceptable.

Original poster
BonyM · 22/03/2006 23:07

Oh - Sleepy Jess, good last post - that's completely the reason I let her go in the first place - they just seem to be making a big thing about the promise which I guess I wasn't expecting.

OP posts:
Hattie05 · 22/03/2006 23:07

I attended sunday school because my friend went and i didn't want to miss out. My mum appeared ok with it when i asked. I went for about 2 weeks and got completely freaked by all the religious stuff and decided not to go again. My mum said - i did wonder why you wanted to go Grin.

I will never stop my dd going somewhere she wants to go.

But fangs do appear in my mouth, and a halo of fire around my head when one is expected to conform to something that teaches a promise they don't believe in.

CountessDracula · 22/03/2006 23:07

Actually Sleepyjess I have never discussed the brownies on mumsnet before.

I was parping at the fact that someone who is self confessedly non religious is getting offended by some little girls group that has as part of it's tradition, nay HERITAGE, a promise (which has already been amended to incorporate mulitiple religions) which is unacceptable to said non religious person.

If it is so offensive then just don't send them. However your child will miss out on a lot of nice things if they can't go to anything that involves a weeny mention of a god.

Or maybe they should change it to say "to love my thing"

sharklet · 22/03/2006 23:07

Our brownies was rubbish so I didn't go - the brown owl was really wet.

Woodcraft Folk in my area was run by a cool old hippy called Red Deer who was great. I loved it.

I did guides when I was older and don't remember mucha bout a christian bent. It was more about decency. Brownies can't be too bad and if she really wants to do it and your concerned well it opens a discussion for you.

I'd still go for woodcraft though.