Would I be a terrible woman if i advise my DD's to act in a way so they are less likely to be assaulted.

[Rubytuesdayy]

With respect to lit streets, chaste clothes, state of drunkenness etc etc? Or would I be victim blaming prior to teh event. I KNOW that rape is the fault of the rapists, but I just want my DD's to be safe.

"The op can help to protect her daughters by calling on the police force to remove rapists of the streets"

How can the police do that though? If they see a man walking down the road with a knife then yes, they can apprehend that man if he has no reason to be carrying that knife, but until a crime has been committed, then there is nothing they can do and a man does not need to be carrying a weapon to be out with the intent to rape.

DNA is like a CRB and will only flag up someone who is already known to the authorities.

I agree that sentencing needs to be much heavier, but the police are not responsible for giving out the punishment.

"wheresmybagel, thank you for your bravery,that must have taken alot of strength to do that. ((hugs))"

Not that brave talking on an anonymous forum I think, but thank you ruby. I dont deserve the praise.

cheese really sorry to hear it happened to you too. You are certainly not to blame for what happened.

Being aware an listening to gut instinct helps. I was dancing in a club with my friend and I told her to get off the dancefloor NOW. She didn't hear me, I tried again but we weren't quick enough and she got punched in the face
I've grown up in pubs and saw a girl looking around, staring at my friend, stomping round an I just knew

But then I got punched unconscious and left with a fractured cheekbone where a girl kicked me in the face. No warning of that whatsoever. I turned round in the toilets, heard the door open and bang, I woke up on the floor

With regards to fights etc, teach them to watch out for trouble, and get out the way. Don't intervene. If anything kicks off now when I am out, I put myself by a door, a bouncer or the police

Squeaky - look up the John Warboys case, a rapist who used his black cab to meet victims. Many women complained about him and the police brushed it off. That right there is the police not taking rape seriously.

Until rapists don't rape, then I think it is eminently sensible to teach your DDs ways in which to protect themselves. However - a lot of that is going to be about making themselves less vulnerable, not about what they wear.

I don't blame you though - it makes sense to want to protect them in any way possible.

In the end though, it's going to continue to be a bloody hard battle to win until men are given the message that rape is not acceptable under ANY circumstances - which currently they aren't.
Take that 14yo boy who has been let off a custodial sentence for raping a 5yo girl in his temporary care - "because he was influenced by porn". Oh really. So the films just jumped out at him and said "YOU MUST rape this child" - bollocks did they. He's way past the age of criminal responsibility and he's "got away with it". I'm quite sure the 5yo did nothing provocative - yet she was still a victim, purely because she was there and female. So bloody :( and about that.

I was sexually assaulted as a pre-teen when walking through our busy local park on a sunny Saturday afternoon. What would have helped me was being told (and perhaps practicing) that you don't have to be polite and if someone tries to get you to do something you don't want then screaming or yelling 'get off me' is not only OK but the right thing to do. I don't think the fact I was wearing a sun dress had anything to do with it because amazingly a year or two later the same guy approached me again when I was wearing my (ugly and most chaste) school uniform. As I was walking back from school that would have been during daylight too.

To be totally honest I'm not terribly sure there is very much you can do to protect yourself or your dds from the true stranger on the street type rape scenario. I think that's mostly down to terribly bad luck. My children don't spend a huge amount of time on their own (dd is very sociable and ds prefers to stay home) but when they do I'll be giving them the same advice when it comes to where they walk and with whom, spotting scary situations and reacting accordingly and managing drinking/drugs. dd has already had a drama workshop with Guides about managing what she calls 'creepy men'.

For my ds I'll also talk about only having sex (or making advances) to those who are obviously showing that they are very much enjoying and encouraging him, for dd I'll focus more on bodily autonomy and that sex should be fun and if it's not to stop. For both of them we've already spent time talking about being generally nice to other people, supporting their friends, challenging crap behaviour (including amongst their friends) and avoiding acting through bravado. Oh and that of course their dad and I will always be there for them (I didn't even tell my mother)

I dressed inappropriately and got drunk when I was younger and strangely was fine. It was my boyfriend who raped me though so I'm not sure your advice is all that relevant but I do see where you are coming from.

I agree with nooka. the greatest threat against my daughter will come from the men in her life. i encourage her to set her own boundaries with her body, and as she grows to recognise healthy and unhealthy relationships (she is v young yet)

i will not tell her anything about clothing etc. our culture already does this educating. i do find it interesting that an earlier poster said that she would take no comfort in being told it wasn't her fault if she were raped. i had kind of the converse- my mother said to me, well what did you expect going out late, and it wounded me terribly

i know that people are trying to be helpful and protect their children, which is great, but some of the things being said are unkind and unhelpful, and send a very different message than the one they might intend

Getting so drunk that you're incapacitated is never a good idea, even when all rapists have been rounded up.

Tragically, in the last 2 years three teens/twenty somethings I know have been killed in alcohol related incidents (no other party involved- just doing stupid things while protected by the booze-cloak of invincibility and got killed) and I know a few other people who got hospitalised (stitches/ broken limbs etc)

Therefore I would definitely be telling my teens not to get completely out of it (whilst accepting I'll probably be ignored) but not from a crime-specific angle IYSWIM

Apologies for getting to this late.

We are more than happy for discussion on this subject. As has been mentioned several times on the thread we are currently running a Campaign that challenges Rape Myths called We Believe You.

You can see more info about this here

Two of the Myths that we are hoping to highlight and that relate to this thread are:

MYTH: Women provoke rape by their appearance or their behaviour

REALITY: Dressing attractively, or flirting, is never an invitation to rape. Rape is not a 'crime of passion' - it is an expression of power and control.

No woman 'asks to be raped' or 'deserves what she gets' - only the rapist is responsible for the rape. Rape happens to all types of women, from the very young to the very old - physical appearance is irrelevant.

There is no 'typical rape victim'. There is only one common factor in all rapes, and that is the rapist.

MYTH: Women who get drunk or take drugs shouldn't be surprised if they are raped or sexually assaulted

REALITY: Being vulnerable does not imply consent. If a woman is drunk, drugged or unconscious, she is not able to consent to sex.

If a woman has consumed alcohol (fewer than four in 10 cases), it is the man's responsibility to ensure that the victim has given, or is capable of giving, consent. If he does not do so, he is committing rape.

Simlilarly, a woman is not to blame if she drinks alcohol and is raped. Women have the same right to consume alcohol as men.

Please do have a look at our Rape Awareness Campaign pages for more info.

OP, would this link be any use to you?

voices.yahoo.com/how-talk-daughter-rape-safety-and-8027830.html?cat=25

I don't agree with it 100%, but you may find it useful

I leave my doors unlocked and my windows open and am regularly burgled. It is inconvenient and I am constantly having to get the police round to make statements but I don't like carrying keys and I like fresh air.

Am I inviting burglars? Well of course not. Leaving my doors unlocked and my windows open is what I want to do.

Wow, that's certainly a powerful and highly original analogy, Bonsoir!

Well Bonsor, being raped is certainly a inconvenience

Remind me again how I can hide the fact I've got a vagina

The only time anyone gets raped is when they meet a rapist. If anyone has a fool proof method of identifying rapists before they rape, please tell us.

You can't teach girls/women how to keep themselves safe because RAPE IS NOT CAUSED BY WOMEN'S BEHAVIOUR. RAPE IS CAUSED BY RAPISTS.

Most rapes are by an acquaintance or partner.

Of course this could be prevented by not getting to know other human beings, ever. Perhaps we should all live in a silo and only communicate electronically. That's the only way Bonsoir's ridiculous analogy would stand.

No-one has ever claimed to have a fool proof way of identifying rapists (nor burglars, for that matter). I don't have any fool proof methods for anything much.

But I do measure risk and take precautions, accordingly.

Yes, I am entirely consistent also, and since a body and a house are the same thing and the whole situation precisely replicated, I have a yale lock on my bra and two padlocks on my knickers, and have also surrounded myself by very high walls. It's only sensible, really.

been thinking about this all day. I reckon if those people saying OP is right would happily agree with their DD, as they are clinging on to them crying "its all my fault mum, its my fault I got raped" then fair enough, as what you are doing is instilling in them that it WILL be their fault. It will be in the back of their minds that they shouldnt have worn that wonderbra, or that short skirt, or walked that way home, and they probably wont report it because they will convince themselves it was their fault.

I disagree hairy.

I actually don't think it makes sense to not warn your children about the dangers of drinking too much/walking home alone/leaving with people you don't know. If something happened to them because they were in any of those situations would they be any less likely to think I shouldn't have gotten drunk/walked home alone/gone off with him? I doubt it. It doesn't make it their fault if they do any of those things but I don't actually think anything is achieved by not saying anything about them and it may reduce the risk of things happening under certain circumstances. Obviously it won't completely eliminate the risk but surely something is better than nothing?