Would I be a terrible woman if i advise my DD's to act in a way so they are less likely to be assaulted.

[Rubytuesdayy]

With respect to lit streets, chaste clothes, state of drunkenness etc etc? Or would I be victim blaming prior to teh event. I KNOW that rape is the fault of the rapists, but I just want my DD's to be safe.

The ad you linked to was one that a particular cab company was using to suggest that it was the safest/best ie. use us or you'll be attacked. I'm not sure how that makes Australus more enlightened. I think it's just a shocking and ill advised marketing campaign.

Running, I can't help the way people feel about something. If we all stopped discussing certain things at the risk of upsetting or annoying others then mumsnet wouldn't really be much of a forum. There is a 'hide' button if people feel that the subject is too sensitive for them.

As a matter of interest Bumbleymummy, were you given any advice on how to stay safe when you were younger. I've only read a little bit of this thread and posted at the beginning. I was. And tried to do the same for DS and DD.

handbag, the other advice has been mentioned on this thread too. It just happens to be more focussed on a debate about whether giving safety advice is sensible or dangerous/unnecessary/victim blaming. That is the part that people are disagreeing on. Everyone is agreeing on the other points so they aren't being mentioned as much. It doesn't mean that they have been disregarded or ignored.

How fucking patronizing can you get???

Yes you can help the way people feel by stop going on about rape myths

Yes, Bumbley. 'TRANSPORT FOR LONDON' use the same ad - and it's just as offensive, scaremongering and victim blaming whether it's used by TFL or a private company.

Yes I was viv. I don't think it did me any harm and it may have done me some good. I don't know what would have happened to my 'sliding doors' self that didn't get any safety advice. Maybe nothing, maybe something. How can anyone know?

bumbley do you actually think you will get people on this thread who have actual real life experience of rape to agree with you?

I don't know what yourre trying to say anymore tbh.

I think she's arguing with herself tbh Handbag.

Blackout, which rape myths? Afaik no one on this thread is perpetuating a rape myth. Saying that you disagree that giving safety advice promotes victim blaming is not perpetuating a rape myth. Just because you think that doesn't make it true.

Anyway, I'm off now - this is a bit bunfighty now. Doubt me and Bumbley will ever agree on anything.

handbag, I don't know. I think I would just like people to understand where we are coming from wrt giving safety advice not being victim blaming. Some people get it, others don't.

Is there a breakdown of the 90% available? "people they know" could have quite a wide range of meanings, from husbands, right through to "someone they vaguely know through a friend of a friend and recognise to say hello to".

You are by saying that a woman can prevent being raped by her own actions what part of its a rape myth don't you understand

No blackout, no one has said that a woman can prevent herself ever being raped by her actions.

General safety advice only would apply in a small number of cases of rape. There is no evidence that it would have made a differrence (unless you have found some?).

Therefore

• in what way is it sensible to apply general safety advice to rape? In how many cases would it be common sense? Less than 10% according to the stats.
• does issuing general safety advice and saying applies to rape endanger people? It wouldn't apply to most rapes anyway and may lull victims into a false sense of security
• is general safety advice unnecessary? If it does not apply to 90%+ of rapes then perhaps it is not as important as you have been led to believe
• is general safety advice victim blaming? We don't say live in a hovel so you don't get burgled. We don't say drive a banger so you don't get car jacked. We dont say dont have a relationship so yourre not a victim of dv. We let people do as they please and support them if they are a victim of crime. Yes, you're insurance might not pay out if you leave your front door wide open and get burgled. But the person analogy to that would be to sit naked with your legs open in public.

Can you not see the difference between 'may be able to reduce her risk in certain situations' and 'Can prevent herself being raped'. You seem to be struggling.

Having read and reread loads of your points, I think it's actually changed my opinion.
While I still believe in both boys and girls being given general safety advice, I now realise it simply doesn't apply to rape.
I still think it is very important to take personal responsibility for your own safety, but it was just ingrained in me to include the risk of rape in with the risk of other assaults, robbery etc. This is no doubt partly due to a culture of rape myths eg stranger rape being perpetuated while I grew up, and I'm a little embarrassed that I was so sucked in that I couldn't see it.
I am going to do my best to educate my son on the topic as he grows up, and hopefully we will all be able to challenge others if they show acceptance of rape myths etc.
This doesn't make general safety advice any less valid in my opinion - it's just that I now realise it has no real bearing on the risk of any woman being raped.

And I am not saying that is a woman sat naked with her legs open in public she deserves to be raped or is asking for it. It's the only way I could compare someone to a house, which I didn't want to do but it seems a popular analogy.

redsquizzle then it's all been worthwhile :)

Redsquizzle :)

handbag, in what way does it make sense to exclude rape from one of the possible attacks that can happen to you?

I do know what you mean about it possibly creating a false sense of security but people have made it very clear on this thread (I think) that they aren't giving that advice saying that it will completely protect you from anything or that it guarantees anything.

No one has been able to say why general safety advice isn't victim blaming but that the same safety advice is victim blaming wrt rape. I don't think that shows the the advice isn't the problem, it's prople's perception of the crime and not giving the advice is not going to change that.

Sigh ... Correction for last sentence.

I think that shows that the advice isn't the problem...

Pops back to say woohoo to Redsquizzle.

Redsquizzle