Would I be a terrible woman if i advise my DD's to act in a way so they are less likely to be assaulted.

[Rubytuesdayy]

With respect to lit streets, chaste clothes, state of drunkenness etc etc? Or would I be victim blaming prior to teh event. I KNOW that rape is the fault of the rapists, but I just want my DD's to be safe.

No the problem is that some men think that they have the god given right to rape women. That is the problem and not the actions of the woman.

Actually Blackout, yes, we had talks about it in school at the time. However, I used the 'jumping out of hedge' example in response to the PP who had mentioned them because she had just been out walking her dog. It helps if you read things in context.

A. General safety advice

B. Rape

In a venn diagram there would be a tiny crossover where a would apply to b.

And most of b would not be effected by a.

There are hundreds of posts yes, trying to apply a to all/most of b. using may and might and possibly doesn't change the jist of what you're saying.

We could move the debate onto

• body language cues of predators
• boosting self esteem of vulnerable women
• promoting rape facts rather than myths to educate
• supporting rape services
• techniques for explaining consent etc for dc

Yes, the problem is that there are rapists out there not the advice . Taking all the advice away isn't going to get rid of the rapists is it? Perhaps you should focus your energy elsewhere.

handbag, I don't think anyone has tried to apply all the advice to B Has anyone tried to suggest that not walking home alone on unlit streets would have any impact on whether of not your friend or partner rapes you when you get home?

' 'Yes, the problem is that there are rapists out there not the advice . Taking all the advice away isn't going to get rid of the rapists is it? Perhaps you should focus your energy elsewhere''

And following the advice isn't stopping rapes is it?

And yes I could focus my energy somewhere else, but I won't. I could give tell you what you could do but I won't in case I get deleted

Is the advice causing the rapes blackout? If it isn't then I'm not really sure what you hope to achieve by not giving it. Should we stop giving the general safety advice too? After all, people are still getting attacked and mugged.

Nope just proves my point that it doesn't work

I'll tell you what, giving out advice on rape is like me giving out the advice to the people who homes have been flooded.

'Live on a hill like me', but even living on a hill won't help me if a pipe bursts will it

Ok then, I suggest that you write to the police and all the organisations that give out that general safety advice and tell them that there's no point because attacks are still happening. I'd be very interested to read their response to you so please make sure you post it when you hear back from them. TIA.

You do like giving me suggestion on what to do don't you?

I've already complained about the City of London Police 'advice' but I'll be sure to let you know what they say when/if they bother to reply

I don't think Bumbley actually has daughters, does she?

No she has a son/s?

Does it matter running? I will give any future daughters the same general safety advice as I give my sons. I don't have a problem with that and neither do many others who have posted on this thread.

Perhaps they're more enlightened in Australia?

So it's just a point of principle for you Bumbley? You're just arguing for the hell of it? Even though a couple of rape victims here have said they find your "advice" triggering?

Running - did you mean to link to the taxi cab ad? The one that was using scare tactics to promote its business?

Btw, the ad dropped in Australia is the exact same one TFL used - and there have been complaints against it for victim blaming.

Bloody hell, who on earth thought that could be a good idea

I have a daughter and I am going to teach her, as I was taught, that she is responsible for her own safety. But then I'm quite a believer in personal responsibility. Of course it's not a guarantee of absolute safety but it puts the onus on the person to think before doing something stupid. Say for example someone has a bit too much to drink and goes home with a stranger who turns out to be a rapist, it is not victim blaming to suggest going home whilst drunk with a stranger is a bloody stupid thing to do. (Incidentally also something I've done several times whilst younger and been lucky enough not to come across any rapists, though plenty of men I wouldn't have touched whilst sober.)

To call that victim blaming is saying that women are not intelligent or aware enough to take on any responsibility. In fact it's putting the onus and the responsibility for women's safety entirely in the hands of men, which is just bullshit.

Right running- so now I'm not allowed to argue a point because I don't have daughters I wonder what other threads on mumsnet I am not allowed to participate in by your rules then...

Yes - I did Bumbley - because TFL use the same ad.

Most people are raped by someone they know.
10% are raped by strangers
Of the 10% we don't know how many were on their own, walking down an unlit street, had headphones on, were drunk etc.
General safety advice would only apply to a small percentage of a small percentage. Even then, there is no evidence that it would have helped.

We can give out general safety advice yes. But what about the 90%+ of women it doesn't help? What advice can we give them? What can we learn about rape to protect more people from being raped? Where is the police advice for them?

This was a thread about rape btw, not general safety outside of the home.

No running linked to a cab ad that suffered a backlash

I just wonder at your motivation for posting your point over and over, when rape victims have said they find it triggering and victim blaming.

Have a heart.