Would I be a terrible woman if i advise my DD's to act in a way so they are less likely to be assaulted.

[Rubytuesdayy]

With respect to lit streets, chaste clothes, state of drunkenness etc etc? Or would I be victim blaming prior to teh event. I KNOW that rape is the fault of the rapists, but I just want my DD's to be safe.

BlackOutTheSun sorry, you are correct, they were extremely poor examples for me to choose as they all involved no person other than the drunk. I will try again.

Her choices were poor because being drunk puts you at risk of a whole heap of things, mostly due to diminished ability to think clearly.

You might decide to get in a car with a drunk driver who then crashes, injuring you. Not your fault

You leave your handbag somewhere. Someone uses your credit card racking up a huge bill Not your fault

In these examples the drunkenness contributed to the final outcome, but the final outcome was decided by a third party. The drunk driver shouldn't have driven. The thief should have handed your bag in rather than using your cards.

None of the outcome was your fault.

You can get in a car with a drunk driver while sober you can lose your bag while sober

Ok if a woman got in a car knowing the driver was pissed her fault

If the woman didn't know the driver was drunk not her fault

But if the woman asked the driver to stop the car so she could get out because she has changed her mind. If the driver refuses then its the driver that is too blame wether the woman was drunk or not. The driver took away her choice

most rapes are committed by people known to the victim.

Only a small proportion of rapes are carried out by chancers who see a girl in a short skirt /pissed/on her own at night etc.

The misogyny which is inherent in our judicial system perpetuates the notion that women 'deserve' rape or 'ask for it' in some way. Look at rape sentencing and conviction in this country. Look at the alarming availability of porn and the pornification of society. Look at the way the media embraces this pornification. Then decide what 'advice' our young people need.

A car crash and losing your bag are both accidents. Being raped is not. Rape is something someone else does deliberately to you.

Even if she was aware the driver was drunk, how is it her fault she crashed?

You are more likely to make poor decisions/ be careless if you are drunk.

The point is that although the risk she took contributed to the final outcome, it did not cause the final outcome. That was outwith her control, and in the hands of another party.

CallinDana The car crash was caused by drunk driving. Not a conscious decision maybe, but not an accident.

The thief using the cards in the lost handbag? Definitely a conscious decision.

As is rape.

and what about children who are raped? what 'advice' would we give them on 'minimising risks'? how could they have prevented or deterred their rape?

oh and btw the dumbwitted reference to 'chaste clothes' ? what is that all about? FYI there are very high rape stats in several countries where women have to dress very conservatively (eg Afghanistan) which renders the 'chaste clothing' idea invalid.

Donnie surely the same risks come into play? Except that depending on age the risks might need to be managed more by the adult than the child?

Donne, you need to read the thread.

A child is more likely to be abused by someone known to the family the same way a woman is more likely to be raped by someone they know

bumbley - unfortunately I have read the thread in its entirety. You simply do not get it do you?

As a previous poster said, I seriously hope you can overcome your innate bigotry and teach your sons not to be rapists.

The best way to avoid being raped is not being a woman.

I'm not sure that's the most psychologically helpful starting point, donnie
It isn't about working backwards from a rape to work out how the victim could have prevted it. That could be as easy as 'set off to school five minutes later' or 'take a different route' but not helpful for risk management
For my children, who are young, I worry about rape/sexual assault far more than physical assault as I can't imagine anyone wanting to just beat up a 5 year old, but perhaps I am incorrectly assessing risk there
So I tell my kids if they feel uncomfortable with someone, anyone, even someone I seem to be friends with, that is OK and they should listen to their instincts. I tell them after I've spoken with someone local that just cos I was friendly with that person it doesn't mean they are my friend and sometimes that I don't really like that person. I tell them to come and tell me straight away if someone is mean to them. I tell them their body is their own and they get to decide who touches private parts of it.
I also teach them martial arts, many of which are about using an attacker's strength against them and are designed to help smaller, weaker opponents defeat stronger attackers. Jiu jitsu is a good example of this. Also, much of it is floor based so more realistic in a rape scenario, and involves joint holds than need little strength. In all honesty, I wouldn't fancy their chances fighting off an adult but it might be enough to startle them and give them space to break free. Some moves are very simple such as how to break someone's hold on your arms or neck while standing, the idea then being you run away! It also teaches physical confidence and the ability to shout loudly and whack someone hard - never a bad thing!

We must be reading different threads donnie. If you had actually read and taken in what has been written then you wouldn't have made the points that you did. Obviously you missed something.

Still.avoiding my question then

BlackOutTheSun which question?

Given that the majority of rapes and sexual assaults are carried out by people known to the victim, I think one thing we can do is teach our girls not to be a pushover; to stand up for themselves.
My 16 year old daughter recently went to what was billed as a girly sleepover. Half way through the evening a gang of 18 to 19 year old lads turned up and made it clear they intended to stay too. My daughter has had a lot of trouble in the past with one of them calling her a tease and accusing her of leading him on (she is not remotely interested). There was drink involved and the party girl's Mum was not assertive in asking them to leave.
Anyway, my daughter felt deeply uncomfortable, did the very sensible thing and left the party to spend the night at a nearby friends house.
When she told me this the next day I was horrified she'd been put in such a position and praised her for doing the right thing. BUT she got an incredible amount of stick from her friends for leaving the party. The general consensus seemed to be that she should have gone along with things like a good little girl and not have made a fuss.
We need to teach our girls its fine to make a fuss if you feel uncomfortable

To bumbley asking how she is teaching her son not to be a rapist

"The best way to avoid being raped is not being a woman".
Male rapes are so very few in number that it's a side issue. But I think it is wrong to be dismissive towards the victims of those crimes.

I was interested in the comment "taking risks is a factor in rape" as this is so very different from how I see it. Violent attack is the risk. Making choices about whether or how to mitigate that risk, based on the nature of the risk and factors where you can exercise choice, is a totally different thing.