Would I be a terrible woman if i advise my DD's to act in a way so they are less likely to be assaulted.

[Rubytuesdayy]

With respect to lit streets, chaste clothes, state of drunkenness etc etc? Or would I be victim blaming prior to teh event. I KNOW that rape is the fault of the rapists, but I just want my DD's to be safe.

Actually, I take that back. It appears that the convictions for rape are actually higher than all other types.

Rape = 58% conviction rate
All other crimes = 57% conviction rate.

Sorry, on that point I was wrong.

What do we think about the Stern report?

Sorry, Stern Review of Rape Reporting

I think theres far too much anxiety encouraged in risk awareness. I'll do x, y and z to minimise my risk of getting raped. And the fact it doesn't work in the majority of cases, what do we do about that? More of the same? Never leave the house on your own? Never drink? Don't go out after dark? Where does it stop?

Rapists were raping long before the miniskirt was a twinkle in someone's eye, when women weren't allowed in lots of pubs, when men were chivalrous and women chaste.

If most people are raped by someone they know perhaps the risk management we should be teaching our kids is how to get out of uncomfortable intimate situations.

I don't want the burden of living my life in case i need to be a credible witness its I just don't want to get raped in the first place.

Is there really a lot of anxiety involved handbag? Is it really such a restriction to not get senselessly drunk, not walk home alone, not wear headphones, not take short cuts through quiet or unlit areas? Those are things recommended got everyone, not just women. I wouldn't feel restricted by those things or anxious about following them, I would just be aware of them.

and continue about my day (posted early)

handbag and bumbly

So one of you wants to minimise risks as they appear to you, and the other does. This may or may not decrease your chance of being raped (haven't managed to find any stats on this)

This choice is your choice and your responsibility, based on your risk assessment /management strategies.

This is entirely independent of the rapist who will rape or not depending on his choices and his risk assessment management strategies.

Everyone makes their own choices. You cannot control the behaviours of others.

Where is the victim blaming in that?

Gah, sorry for the typos, but you get the gist..

Not walking home alone is a very big restriction bumbley - would you advise your daughter not to take a job she needed and go on benefits instead because the job involved her walking home alone?

Just out of interest, would you distinguish between a rape victim who took a lot of risks and one who took absolutely no risks?

I disagree. But it's pointless going over and over it.

Either you believe that following various rules reduces your chance of meeting a rapist and him wanting to rape you or you don't. I'm in the don't.

I have made suggestions as to what we could do to teach dcs about keeping themselves safe which is more to do with self esteem, boundaries and consent. Apparently, we must continue to talk about not drinking too much or walking home alone through a dark, dark wood at 2am instead.

But it doesn't matter whether or not you believe the "rules" work. That is your choice, your responsibility and irrelevant to any one else.

What does matter is that if someone chooses to follow the "rules", or advise someone else to then you accept that is their choice and their responsibility.

Not that they are a victim blamer or an apologist.

So the posters who think the rules will help them avoid being raped

What do you think the motivation behind the rapist is?

Surely teaching DCs about boundaries /self esteem/ consent is also teaching them "rules" that may or may not affect their chances of rape.

You are saying by implication that people who don't teach their kids this are keeping their kids less safe = victim blaming?

I think the motivation of the rapist is to rape (power/agression/entitlement) and to get away with it.

Oh and the Stern report also says that nine in ten rapes go unreported.

Handbag, no one is disregarding what you have said about boundaries and self esteem etc, we're all pretty much in agreement on that. It's just the other part that we're debating.

Cailin, i dint have daighters but if i did, i woukd be giving them the sane basic safety advice as my sons. I don't think telling them whether or not to take a job when they are adults would come into it.

No, I wouldn't distinguish between any rape victims. Why would I?

''I think the motivation of the rapist is to rape (power/agression/entitlement) and to get away with it.''

So how is the actions of a woman going to prevent rape then?

Well clearly you think taking risks is a factor in rape. So if you knew two rape victims and one was out on high heels in a dark area drunk out of her skull and the other was in her bed at home then you would think that the drunk one hadn't really been sensible, that she had taken a risk, wouldn't you?

So bumbley you say you would give the same advice to your son as you would your daughter?

Have you explained to your son on how to avoid being a rapist?

No caillin, I'm not saying that and no, I wouldn't think that.

BlackOutTheSun she may be able to lower risks slightly, by trying to be in a position where the rapist wouldn't get away with it.

Look confident and alert
Be around other people

Now these may or may not help. I think they may slightly so I choose to do them. This is my choice.

I could choose not to do these things. This is an equally valid choice.

If a rapist chooses to risk being caught and rape me that is his choice.

I am not responsible for his choices, and he is not responsible for mine.

CallinDana I would say that she has weighed up risks/benefits differently to me. That is her choice.

I would also hope that the one in bed had weighed up her risks/benefits in choosing who she lives with.

They both made their choices. They may put themselves more or less at risk. However, they cannot control the rapist.

He makes his choices too.

So the drunk one didn't take a risk?