Would I be a terrible woman if i advise my DD's to act in a way so they are less likely to be assaulted.

[Rubytuesdayy]

With respect to lit streets, chaste clothes, state of drunkenness etc etc? Or would I be victim blaming prior to teh event. I KNOW that rape is the fault of the rapists, but I just want my DD's to be safe.

Caillin, you were the one who called them restrictions. The advice I have mainly been focussing on is not getting drunk and walking home alone. I think I also mentioned headphones at one point and unlit areas - basically the same info given in those links that I'm posted.

Have you ever been drunk bumbley?

Caillin, I haven't mentioned 'chaste' clothing anywhere.

From the point of view of a girl,there is also risk in being walked home by a thoughtful male friend isn't there?
I would advise both DD and DS to keep with a group of friends,I personally think that not getting too drunk is prudent as impaired judgement and mobility is not an ideal situation generally.
As for the chaste clothes etc,well I was very boring chastely dressed,non alcohol drinking teen - I was never raped,thank god,that doesn't mean no predatory blokes ever honed in on me.I think they saw "unworldly,naive,vulnerable" - and I'm not sure why that wouldn't also apply to a rapist??

Sorry bumbley that was Ruby in the OP.

'I protect myself from lung cancer by not smoking'. Doesn't mean you won't get lung cancer, just that you're not risking the main cause.

'I protect myself from being mugged by not flashing my cash'. Doesn't mean you'll not get mugged, just that you're not putting yourself at the biggest risk.

'I protect myself from being raped by...'

kim but would the victim be blamed if they didn't follow the guidelines?...

As a rape victim is blamed if s/he doesn't follow the "guidelines"

I protect myself from being raped by:

-not drinking to excess as this impairs judgement

-choosing my friends and partners carefully - unless of course you are suggesting that every man is a potential rapist

-following basic personal safety tips - they do not restrict my life and may make me safer

And if I am still raped I've improved the quality of my evidence by not being drunk.

Only read half the thread but have to go in a minute so will write what I'm thinking now quickly...

I sometimes like to drink so that I get tipsy.

I go running, and cycling, alone, in the countryside, in the woods, in the early mornings.

I walk alone in the city. In the daytime, in the evenings.

I walk my dogs alone at lunch time, I walk my dogs alone in the mornings.

I take my children out to secluded places. Again, woods, countryside.

I have male friends. Sometimes I see them, by myself.

When I travel with work, I eat out alone and go back to the hotel, by myself.

I open the door to men when I am in the house alone.

I get taxis.

Any of those times I could be raped, murdered. Should I never drink? Should I never take my children to the woods?

I'm not going to stop living my life, in case there is a murderer out there a rapist hiding, one day.

There is no crime in any of those things I do. Why should I be scared every second? I don't want to live my life in that way. It isn't fair for anyone to expect me to do so. IT IS MY RIGHT TO LIVE FREE. To live as a human being, not to hide away. And anyone who hints otherwise with all this chaste clothing, don't eat cheese after midnight bollocks, can fuck off. Because to me, it is victim blaming. And it makes me very sad.

Saying they were putting themselves at risk is blaming the victim kim, because you are saying that if they hadn't taken those risks then they were less likely to have been raped, implying that they played a part in their rape - it was their actions that created the risk.

kim147 but many people on this thread are unable to see that. They would argue that as you are saying the hypothetical worker chose to take additional risks you are victim blaming, as you are suggesting that had s/he not taken the risks nothing would have happened.

Kim, Some people seem to think that because they can't guarantee safety there is no point in talking about them at all.

Kim, some of us understand and agree with what you are saying.

My point is the clothing advice in terms of how skimpy it is provides no protection against anything. I would worry that a teenager given that advice could be walking down the street believing they are 100% due to wearing chaste clothing and therefore not be as alert to potential dangers as they may be.

Some of the other advice is good for life in general drinking to the point of drunkness is just unhealthy in general, alarms are a good idea, being aware of your surroundings, being told it's ok to speak up if something just feels uncomfortable, having a plan to get home etc. Good general advice.

The key question is whether you teach your DCs to recognise and assess risk, and whether you encourage them to learn about protective measures that may reduce that risk

No one has said any particular step removes risk.

If you believe that risk management is inherently useless, because people can suffer at the hands of others because no measure is sufficiently protective, then obviously you teach your children nothing about situation awareness, self defence or other measures.

If you accept that life is an inherently complex and variable, but you can influence at least some factors in it, then you teach about risk and mitigations. I think that equipping my DCs with the ability to think about what they do, what is risky, and what can reduce the risk is an important parenting task. Clearly not everyone agrees with this.

Scroungie, I don't think anyone has really defended the idea that 'chaste' clothing in any way prevents rape. I don't think any advice should be given in the context of 'if you do this then you will definitely be safe.'

Another way of putting it (does anyone agree?)

• We cannot control/take responsibility for the actions of others.

• We take responsibility for own actions.

• If a rape occurs that is soley the responsibilty of the rapist (his action)

• If someone chooses to follow some sort of personal safety guidelines that is solely their responsibility (their action)

• If we accept that we cannot control the actions of others then the actions of the victim and rapist are completely independent of each other. No victim blaming.

And what Edith said. I wish I could be that articulate

But its

Most women who are raped are sober, so not drinking to excess does not reduce your chance of being raped.

I'm sure the 20% of women who are raped by someone they know don't think they're bad judges of character. I mean who'd marry a rapist! Or get in a taxi with one! Or live in the same house as one! Or be related to one! You'd be crazy.

Nice that you're looking on the bright side, that if you do get raped at least you'd be a credible witness.

The credible witness thing is important. The fundamental problem with convicting rapists is that they, under law, are presumed innocent (rightly).

The Crown has to prove beyond reasonable doubt that they are guilty. In many (most?) cases there will be no witnesses so it is the victims word against the rapist. Being a credible witness is important in securing conviction.