Would I be a terrible woman if i advise my DD's to act in a way so they are less likely to be assaulted.

[Rubytuesdayy]

With respect to lit streets, chaste clothes, state of drunkenness etc etc? Or would I be victim blaming prior to teh event. I KNOW that rape is the fault of the rapists, but I just want my DD's to be safe.

I wasn't trying to be sarky. I just genuinely don't understand this view that you should not advise someone to take basic safety precautions e.g as set out on Suzy Lamplugh site, because to do so is victim blaming.

You're!

To decrease the risk of rape

Insist they nevver wear jeans and T shirt.
Insist they never have a boyfriend / male friend / husband.
Insist they do not have any male relatives.

You are not going to do that are you?

As for being safe
Stay with friends if you are out, don't take drugs including legal highs, only wear shoes you can walk in, don't get drunk. Do have some emergency money sown into your coat / hidden somewhere. Remember how to cross the road, even after a drink.

You know what we need to do to stop rapes take the chad Evans case. So the woman was drunk she she too blame?

Or how about Evans getting her drunk? To stop that rape all it would.have took is one of his mates to say no she is drunk stop it. But no they got out their phones and recorded it. That's what we have to tackle

Argh! But there's nothing you're doing or not doing that's going to actually make a difference beyond never leaving the house and never being in the house with a man!

Upthread stats. Most women are raped by someone they know. Most women who are raped are sober (60/40 iirc). That is the biggest risk. What do we teach our kids about these risks?

Most people aren't victims of violent crime. Is that because they're really good at following the rules or is it because most people aren't violent so it's rare?

Bumbley you believe what you believe. You think it does you good, and you think it will do your daughters good. People who pray believe the same thing. And maybe they're right, maybe praying does slightly reduce your risk of certain very specific things. So why not do it. So go ahead and do it but don't try to convince people who have actually been raped that it could have helped them in any way. Would you go to someone who lost a child and say "I believe praying reduces child death"? No, because it is incredibly insensitive. This is no different. Have your views but don't stuff them down people's throats, especially not the throats of rape victims. Thanks.

Handbag, how can you say it will definitely not make a difference? You may still be raped by your partner/husband/friend/work colleague but you might not be raped in another situation.

Cailin, I am not trying to convince someone that they should have done something. I am just arguing against people who think that basic 'keep safe' advice is victim blaming when it comes to rape. I have said several times now that following that advice doesn't guarantee anything so please stop putting words in my mouth and arguing against points that I haven't made - thanks.

So your advice could help people who are raped in future, but it couldn't have helped people who were raped in the past? Is that right?

So bumbley what is your point?

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. I'm not trying to say to anyone 'oh, if you'd followed this advice then you wouldn't have been raped because no one can know that. There are no guarantees and this particular advice that we're discussing is only relevant to a small percentage of rapes (as has been pointed out several times) What I am saying is that I won't not give my children basic safety advice because I don't want them to blame myself of something happens to them. I am not separating rape out specifically - it is one of the many risks that are out there.

But you are 90% more likely to be raped in those circumstances. So why focus on the 10% and never address the 90%? And the stuff you're advocating is no guarantee that it will protect you from the 10% which you're saying yourself.

So it is entirely sensible for a 14 year old to go out on the lash, short skirt, high heels, flirting outrageously with anything that moves. Get completely trashed, stagger home at 1am alone, wearing only one shoe and weaving all over the pavement, and take a shortcut through an unlit park.

No it's not sensible, but unless she meets a rapist she will not be raped.

Blackout

So true - and what I can't understand is his sister leading a campaign to try to get him released.

I think the guys filming should be charged as accessories, or something.

Someone said something about being able to get away better wearing jeans - rubish - pul your jeans half way down your legs and try to walk, let alone run - and if you have trainers on you can't get them off to free your legs.

Short skirt and stilletoes - kick of the shoes and run in your bare feet.

handbag, plenty of advice has been given about the 90% on this thread and everyone pretty much agrees on it. It's the 10% that is the contentious part because some people think there is no point in even trying to reduce the risk because they are worried that their children will blame themselves while others think it is worth giving the advice because it just might make a difference and they see it as the same as giving any safety advice.

I just don't see the point in women restricting their lives to reduce the risk of something very rare by a tiny amount. But you do see the point, and very few people agree with you. That's the way it is and so I don't see the point of the discussion.

I have a teenage son. I have taught him to never let one of his female friends walk home alone at night. He can always get his curfew changed if he tells me he is seeing so and so home. In fact I often go out and drive them both around (depending on the wine consumption :) ). Is that wrong?

Genuine question

This thread started off with the dark alleys, tight clothes, drunk girl rape myth.

It's now apparently about general safety on a night out.

No of course it's not wrong Shiraz, it's kind and thoughtful. But if a girl refuses to be walked home for whatever reason then that's her choice and she's entitled to make it. The only times I've objected to being walked home is when I wasn't given a choice - I was treated like a small child who had to be accompanied.

Where bumbley have you suggested advice to the 90% of women who when raped, are raped by someone they know?

But restricting women's movements hasn't worked has it

Actually Caillin, it's fairly obvious from early in in the thread that a lot of people agree with me. They just get fed up being told that they are victim blaming.

The 'restrictions' are the same ones advised for general safety - for men and women.

I'm curious what your restrictions actually are bumbley, could you lay them out in black and white?

But what is general safety on a night out for?

It is ridiculous to suggest that it covers every violent crime apart from rape.

It's still not working tho is it

Handbag, I didn't say I gave it - I just agreed with the tons of advice that was given. it wasn't really debated too much because, as I said, the contentious part was whether it not to give advice that may reduce the risk of the 10% in case it was victim blaming.

So what exactly is your advice bumbley? Am I right you've changed your mind about "chaste" clothes, or is that still part of your restrictions?