Just need to offload - can't take much more of my MIL

[WigWamBam]

I know she's something of a MN joke and everyone thinks she's funny, but my MIL has had me in tears all night last night and I really don't ever want to see the woman or hear her name ever again.

She has constantly and consistently undermined me and my parenting almost since the day my dd was born. The day after the birth she came to visit and was asked to leave after a few minutes because I was unwell (long labour, emergency section, blood transfusion, blah blah blah) and her response was "That's OK, no-one's come to see YOU anyway". The following day she came again while dh was at home, and when she got home she rang him to tell him what a crap mother I was - not talking to the baby enough, not cuddling the baby enough, not interacting (go figure; I was spaced out on morphine and in dreadful pain, and dd was spending most of the day asleep). And basically she has continued to undermine me in every aspect of my relationship with my daughter. She talks over me when I try to talk to dd or discipline her, she refuses to accept it when I say "no" to dd, she does things I have particularly asked her not to do.

Yesterday was my birthday, we'd had a nice day out and popped in to see her on the way home. We were only intending to stay for 20 minutes, so when dd asked if she could have her box of toys out I said no. She had paper and pencils, and was making things with the gift wrapping and ribbons from one of my presents so had plenty to play with. MIL kept saying "It's OK, they're not too difficult to get at, she can have them if she wants them", but I had said no because we weren't staying long, and MIL has been away from home for a while and her bags and cases were in the way of dd's toy boxes. When dd asked for the third time for her toys and I said no she started the emotional blackmail - started that fake crying that almost-5-year-olds are so good at. And my MIL hit the roof. She accused me of making everything horrible for my dd, spoiling her day, spoiling the time that we were spending there and yet again there was the implication (if not the stated opinion) that my parenting sucks. My dh told her that she was undermining me, which she denied, but when I asked to go home he wouldn't leave because he said I was over-reacting.

We did leave pretty soon, because I wouldn't stay and was going to walk home without him, but on the way home dh accused me of being paranoid about his mother (I'm not; you only have to read some of my posts about her to see what she's like with me). He has since told me that although he agrees she undermines me, I have to make allowances for the fact that she's in her 70s - basically I have to put up with her crap because she's old. As far as I am concerned, age is no excuse for her behaviour; she has all of her faculties, and she isn't losing her marbles - she just doesn't like me and she doesn't think I'm a good enough mother for her (only) grandchild.

It sounds like something really petty when I write it down, but it's really got to me this time. I have had 16 years of not being good enough for her son, almost 5 years of not being good enough for her grandchild, and I can't take this much more. Particularly if dh isn't prepared to support me against her. He phoned her last night when I was in the bath, I could hear him asking whether she was OK and how she was feeling ... he's now acting as if nothing has happened, and expecting me to go out tomorrow to buy presents for her birthday later in the week.

Sorry this is so long and rambling; I'm not sure why I'm posting it really but I'm so hurt and upset by it all and just need to get it out. There's nothing anyone can say to make it better or make it go away, I just need for someone to listen and understand. Sorry.

WWB, I hope it doesn't sound as if I'm over-simplifying this.

Guilt was my main handicap in dealing with my MIL - but it was entirely misplaced. It was not my fault things were so awful, had it been up to me we could have had a good relationship. Other people fed into this, like my Mum banging on about how she felt sorry for MIL, she was missing so much etc. Not my problem.

My second big handicap was trying to protect dh. Thought he would be miserable and blame me if he never saw MIL and she never saw dd. Counselling helped me to extricate myself from this tangle of confused feelings. If dh was made miserable it was MIL that made him miserable, not me. If dd missed out on having a nice Granny it was because MIL was a monster, not because of me.

My fears for dh were also misplaced. All this was far more upsetting for me than for him even though she is his mother. Snowleopard is right, he really didn't understand how awful she was. This was because 1) he was inured to it (as Blu said, he'd had decades of practice in ignoring her); 2) a lot of it was specifically aimed at me; 3) he didn't have any other family who could provide a 'normal' comparison, like aunties or other in-laws.

I'm not trying to make excuses for your dh, just saying that it will take time for him to take in what you're saying. But there's no alternative. Your MIL sounds like an instinctive manipulator - she will scent any disagreement between you and exploit it. She will magnify any inappropriate guilt you feel and shift blame for her behaviour.

Relate is a good suggestion. You have been worn down by the woman for so long it's difficult for you to be objective. You talk as though you feel trapped, enmeshed like a fly in a spider's web. Counselling might offer a way to untangle yourself and help you get DH to work with you. Good luck anyway.

A fantastic post, Eemie. I'm currently extricating myself from a very enmeshed relationship with my mother, and what you say rings very true. I do hope WWB finds it helpful too. :)

WWB
Forgive the bluntness of my question, but how can you love and respect a man who allows his mother to treat you like this? You say he's critical of you, are you frightened to tell her to bugger off or to tell him to support you because you're insecure in the relationship?

Brozzer, I am very secure in the relationship; you are only hearing the negative parts of it here, you're not hearing about the good bits. Of which there are many. I would guess most people's relationships have their bad bits, no matter how good the rest is.

I think it's pretty much as eemie says - he doesn't realise how bad she is because it's only me she's like this with. She has always been good to him, and he can't see that she is different with me - maybe because he doesn't want to, I don't know. He doesn't much like confrontation either so prefers to do ostrich impersonations and stick his head in the sand.

Eemie, what you say about her instinctively sensing and exploiting any disagreements between us is spot on - but of course dh can't see it. I can, and I try to limit what she sees of our disagreements.

Relate feels like a very extreme measure, to be honest - because our relationship is otherwise so good. It may not sound like it from the posts here but he is genuinely a kind, caring man who I know loves me and dd very much indeed. I would be frightened to suggest Relate because it would suggest that there are more problems within our relationship than there really are.

WWB - I had 18mths of putting up with crap from my MIL and being expected to fall in line by my dp. Finally I exploded and told her a few home truths and to back off and give us some space. It's been a nightmare and dp and I split up over the issue for a couple of weeks.

I will not play second fiddle to my dp's mother and put up with rudeness and manipulation eg crying to my dp when I've cancelled a visit for very good reasons. She is not the head of my family and I made the decision to put my foot down and say a big, resounding NO.
Dp and I are rebuilding things and it's hard but I feel a million times better. She is now having to tread on thin ice around me which is GREAT.
Your MIL sounds a lot worse than mine,to be fair.
I don't think men like yours or mine will ever realise how awful their mothers are. I do think though that they've got to listen and understand that mummy's behaviour has upset their partner and be sympathetic about that. And take responsibility for it, not deny it or blame you.
It's appalling to invalidate your feelings in this way.
I wish you lots of luck with a very difficult situation.

Brozzer, I guess that part of the problem is that I've put up with her for 16 years, and probably should have had it out with her well before now if I was going to! The problem is that it builds up and builds up - I thought I could cope with her but since having dd, and with her trying to use dd to get at me, it's got harder to do.

I suppose I sound like a bit of a doormat but it's difficult to change things after so long - particularly when dh hasn't seen any of it as being a problem.

If I weren't such a wuss, and if I didn't care about how people felt, it would be so much easier just to tell her to go and stuff herself. I know that part of the problem is with me - I feel responsible for other people, and I also feel guilty for how my actions make other people feel and it's hard to change that.

Please WWB, don't feel awful. I've been a first class doormat and put up with my awful, manipulative, tantrum-throwing ILs for 13 years. These are the sort of people who after their tantrums, expect me to act as if nothing has happened, no apologies, nothing. It doesn't help that I've got a wuss for a husband who would now rather put his parents feelings before mine and the children. I used to get birthday/Christmas presents for them. I even got all the gifts and cake for their 40th Wedding Anniversary 6 years ago because DH and his sister had no idea what to do to make it special. A few months later they threw an almighty tantrum in front of our 13 month old DD. From that moment, I told DH that it was his department to get presents and cards for his parents from then on. So as a result, he doesn't send them anniversary cards (he didn't before he even met me) so the ILs don't send us one any more (their pathetic way of getting at me).

The thing is that you have to stop caring. I know that's a hard thing to do because you're obviously a caring person. Just tell yourself that you've had 16 years of it and you've had enough. From now on it's your DHs mother, so it's his problem.

WWB I can understand why you feel Relate is too extreme. The fundamental problem is not with your marriage but with your MIL.

I am sure Relate would be an enormous help but it doesn't need to be them. The biggest help is having a sympathetic and concerned person who is not caught in her web and can help you to untangle what she is doing to you both. Any competent counsellor could help you to get on top of this.

In my case it was a counsellor attached to my GP's surgery who helped me. My dh never came to a session though he could have done if the counsellor or I had thought he needed to. Eight years later I still sometimes fall back on what I learned from her, even though I only had six sessions. She wasn't emotionally involved with MIL, so was immune to guilt-tripping and was effective at passing on her immunity to me.

HTH

wwb havent read all of this thread but my ex mil was a nasty cow. she never liked me and only paid me any attention at all when i was pg with ds. when i had him she offered to look after him while i worked. we offered her money to do so, she said no if we gave her money she wouldnt have him. then she started asking us for taxi fares, saying she couldnt get around with him. we were happy to pay of course but then found out she had been lying, using the bus. she insisted ds was registered at her doctors, as ours was too far. this we did but then all his appointments went to her house. i cooked him homemade meals, froze and sent them down every day. she threw them away and fed him baby jars and mcdonalds! i sent nappies, she saved them up and i saw a huge pile in her lounge so i didnt send any for a couple of weeks and she called me a bad mother etc etc. she lied to us about everything the health visitor told her, ds was allergic/couldnt eat/shouldnt eat this that and the other. it was all rubbish. she did so many things and was one of the reasons i split with ds's dad. he would not stand up to her at all. he always said it was "between me and her". i found out about so many things she had done after i had split with ds's dad and became friends with his new partner. that in itself was a miracle after the horrible woman had tried to face us off against each other. she told her i was a terrible mother, told me she hated my son! i have every sympathy with what you're going through. im so glad i dont ever see my ex miil now.

Wigwam - when I was in this situation, I was in the position of your dh, ie it was my mum who was being mean.
dx just ignored her after she started it. Would just like to say, that I never blamed dx for any of the rows - I knew who was starting them, even though for years, I didnt want to have it out with her.
Your MIL is really being horrible to her son, because she is implying that he is too stupid to choose a wife. If she really respected her son, she would respect his choice of wife. If you can make him understand that, your troubles will be over, I suspect.

You've put up with her for 16 years - well, something has changed now - you have changed!

If you do decide that enough is enough, you really have no need to feel guilty about her relationship with your dh. She has no right to try and poison his marriage.

Nightynight, I think it's all down to jealousy ... I have what she no longer has.

When dh and I first got together, she had been widowed for about a year, and she has played on this for all the time I've known her. She moved out of her home and into a retirement complex - which has grown old as she has, so she is surrounded by people just like her. She feels she has an awful life because she lost her husband - yes, I know it's an awful thing, but she has never really allowed herself to start to live again. She has spent 17 years preferring to whine about the fact she lost her husband, rather than going out and getting her life back. When he lost his dad, dh started seeing his mother more, doing more for her - and within a month of being with him, I was being moaned at because I was the reason he didn't go round for Sunday dinner any more (the fact that we still saw her just as often was immaterial). When we first got together, if we took her anywhere she would put herself between the two of us to hold dh's hand - it didn't bother me because I could see that she was trying to claim ownership, and although she's his mother, I am the person he has chosen to be with. I could afford to let it go because it was me he was going home with, so I chose to.

I have the man, I have the house, and now I have the child that she no longer has - and she hates me for it. I even have her name, and that eats her up no end ... she constantly adds "Junior" whenever she hears anyone call me Mrs X, or if I ever have to tell someone my name while she is around. I know why she feels the way she does, and I have until now been able to at least have some sympathy for it. But I can't stand the way she is using dd against me - dd is completely innocent in all of this and doesn't deserve to be used in this way.

I guess it's all just piled up and up and up, and the last straw has broken the camel's back.

She actually asked to speak to me on the phone last night (it was her birthday, and dd had rung to say Happy Birthday to her) - and was acting all sweetness and light as if nothing had happened. I actually think she's enjoying this - it's never occurred to me before, but I think she's enjoying the fact that she's finally found a way to get at me.

I've gone from being upset to being angry now ... things will change, I have to change things otherwise she's just going to get worse and worse.

She is one sad woman. I wish you all the strength you need to manage this( without feeling guilty about protecting your own peace of mind!).

Thank you ... I think I'm going to need it!