Just need to offload - can't take much more of my MIL

[WigWamBam]

I know she's something of a MN joke and everyone thinks she's funny, but my MIL has had me in tears all night last night and I really don't ever want to see the woman or hear her name ever again.

She has constantly and consistently undermined me and my parenting almost since the day my dd was born. The day after the birth she came to visit and was asked to leave after a few minutes because I was unwell (long labour, emergency section, blood transfusion, blah blah blah) and her response was "That's OK, no-one's come to see YOU anyway". The following day she came again while dh was at home, and when she got home she rang him to tell him what a crap mother I was - not talking to the baby enough, not cuddling the baby enough, not interacting (go figure; I was spaced out on morphine and in dreadful pain, and dd was spending most of the day asleep). And basically she has continued to undermine me in every aspect of my relationship with my daughter. She talks over me when I try to talk to dd or discipline her, she refuses to accept it when I say "no" to dd, she does things I have particularly asked her not to do.

Yesterday was my birthday, we'd had a nice day out and popped in to see her on the way home. We were only intending to stay for 20 minutes, so when dd asked if she could have her box of toys out I said no. She had paper and pencils, and was making things with the gift wrapping and ribbons from one of my presents so had plenty to play with. MIL kept saying "It's OK, they're not too difficult to get at, she can have them if she wants them", but I had said no because we weren't staying long, and MIL has been away from home for a while and her bags and cases were in the way of dd's toy boxes. When dd asked for the third time for her toys and I said no she started the emotional blackmail - started that fake crying that almost-5-year-olds are so good at. And my MIL hit the roof. She accused me of making everything horrible for my dd, spoiling her day, spoiling the time that we were spending there and yet again there was the implication (if not the stated opinion) that my parenting sucks. My dh told her that she was undermining me, which she denied, but when I asked to go home he wouldn't leave because he said I was over-reacting.

We did leave pretty soon, because I wouldn't stay and was going to walk home without him, but on the way home dh accused me of being paranoid about his mother (I'm not; you only have to read some of my posts about her to see what she's like with me). He has since told me that although he agrees she undermines me, I have to make allowances for the fact that she's in her 70s - basically I have to put up with her crap because she's old. As far as I am concerned, age is no excuse for her behaviour; she has all of her faculties, and she isn't losing her marbles - she just doesn't like me and she doesn't think I'm a good enough mother for her (only) grandchild.

It sounds like something really petty when I write it down, but it's really got to me this time. I have had 16 years of not being good enough for her son, almost 5 years of not being good enough for her grandchild, and I can't take this much more. Particularly if dh isn't prepared to support me against her. He phoned her last night when I was in the bath, I could hear him asking whether she was OK and how she was feeling ... he's now acting as if nothing has happened, and expecting me to go out tomorrow to buy presents for her birthday later in the week.

Sorry this is so long and rambling; I'm not sure why I'm posting it really but I'm so hurt and upset by it all and just need to get it out. There's nothing anyone can say to make it better or make it go away, I just need for someone to listen and understand. Sorry.

He'll take some time to process it.

He'll also pretend you've not said it.

When he makes some "when we see my mum" comment, you need to repeat it, calmly and clearly.

Don't get upset (outwardly) - it will defeat the magnitude of what you're saying.

I would casually mention this evening that he needs to get her a birthday present though.

Stick to your guns Wigwam, men can be incredibly dim sometime, but at least it is a start.

I did tell him that I wasn't going to be responsible for his relationship with her anymore, but after I'd spoken to him he said something about us still needing to get her a present - and I said "Yes, you do, don't you". He looked at me a bit old-fashioned but he's gone out shopping so maybe something did sink in.

I was quite pleased and surprised that I didn't end up incoherent and sobbing. I've punched a few cushions and soaked a few hankies since he went out though.

I feel crap.

Good for you, and make sure all evidence of crying fit is hidden by the time he gets back. Don't feel shite, feel great that you are so strong and positive and sticking up for yourself. By the way DO NOT wrap the pressie or sign the card for him.

Its ok to have a good cry scream etc - it just the frustration of it all. Stand your ground for the sake of your sanity.

WWB, I don't have the mother-in-law problem but I do totally relate to your feeling that your DH sees everyone's point of view except yours. My DP, though we have a great relationship and really do love each other, is like this and it's always driven me potty. The worst thing is it's usually other women - he has several mad female friends, some of them exes (luckily we only see them rarely), and he expects me to get on with them. He cannot see that they are possessive about him and don't like me. If it goes badly, he says "why couldn't you be nicer to X" and "X means well, she just lacks social skills" and suchlike - when in fact X has been giving me the deadeye. I hate it because I feel, like you, that he should take my side automatically.

However in many, ahem, "discussions" about this, I've come to realise that he genuinely thinks if he explains the other person's point of view and motivations, that will make it easier for me to like them. He thinks he is helping me by making me see that they don't hate me, it's just their way! etc etc. It is naive of him and he's dreadfully blind to the ways of women, but I think he actually has no intention of making me feel as sided-against as I do. I bet your DH is still dreaming that one day you and MIL will sort it out and get on, and I bet he fundamentally doesn't understand the extent to which she has it in for you.

I'm just saying this to try and help with that particular issue which sounds as if it's causing you a lot of stress. It must actually be very hard being a man caught between a partner and a mother and not really getting what is going on. Imagine if FILs were like this about their daughters and every father/DH encounter was a suppressed bitchfight! Of course that sounds hilarious because men generally aren't like that, and I think in many cases they just don't understand it.

Long, sorry. Anyway, fwiw I think you're in the right.

WWB I have not read the full thread, not because of lack of time, but because just reading your posts has been enough to make my blood boil.

I have been in your situation and is awful. Reading your posts brings back all the memories and it certainly hurts. The only thing I can say, after reading your posts, is that while your DH continues to preffer supporting his mummy instead of you, the cow will have carte blanche to be as rude as she wants towards you.

I can tell you lots about what I went through, but I would simplify it by saying that I agreed to move out of Spain because I knew my marriage would not survive under MIL's pressure. Even so, we have been to three courses of Relate sessions to deal with the damage, I have asked for divorce three times, and DH knows perfectly well now, that I only stayed this last time because of DS. That has turn the situation around and finally, he is dealing with his mother. Unfortunately my marriage is now a mess, but I know well this was going to happens sooner or later, and better it happened then, I knwo that next time I would have just packed my things and leave while DH were away.

My suggestions for somebody who, like me, have a MIL that plays in the professional league of Horrid MILs, are the following:

• Don't try to sort the things with her, it's your DH who has to sort them up. Unless you present a united front he is giving her carte blanche to be rude to you as she pleases.

• Agree on a plan to deal with your DD's requests,behaviour, etc and make sure that everyone respects it (that way, your DH will see that what you are asking for is perfectly reasonable and not specifically aiming at his mum).

-Stop sorting the situations for your DH, it's his mother, but, you are his wife. If your MIL doesn't respect you as a DIL, you are not requested to respect her as a MIL. If she is rude to you, don't be rude to her, just find intelligent ways to avoid her as you would with any other person who makes you feel bad. I have made lot of progress by asking DH "I don't tolerate such behaviour from my mum/sister/best friends/boss/etc, why I do have to tolerate it if it's comming from your mum?

• If he says she's old and won't change, say that you understand that, but you are getting hurt and that won't change either if she continues to act like that.

• Stop playing the good DIL, she doesn't deserve it. The day I finally stopped MIL in her tracks was when everything blew out and I told her that although I was to her eyes an awful person, and she thought her DS was a wonderful son, it was because I was behind him: I spent days finding out presents she would like, I planned the surprise trips to visit her on her birthday, I reminded him to call her every week, I remind him to visit her if we were around, etc. But from that day on, I was off duty, just for her to see how much DH good relationship with her was instigated by me. (Comment I un-diplomatically finished by saying that if I were not there to do that, her son would not even remember he had a mother...which, unfortunately, time has proven right).

• Try to keep conversations with her to a polite minimum, the less you speak the less oportunities she will have to get at you. If she acts again the way she acted yesterday, don't answer to her, just say you are not prepared to discuss anything with her unless she has calmed down. Keep things cool in fron of DH, even if you are boiling inside, but don't pretend she was right.

• And, go to Relate, your DH has to hear from an impartial party, that what is going on is not normal, and you are not expected to tolerate that. Unfortunately, he is te only one who can turn the situation for the better.

Many hugs, keep your head up, and don't forget that the main person that you have to respect/support is not your DH, DD, MIL or anybody else, it's YOU. Take care, good care, of yourself.

Many many hugs, WWB, I'm really sorry things are getting to this point, but I knwo that you are still in time to sort it out.

WWB, I'm glad you spoke to him about it. He might be processing what you said, rather than ignoring it? I hope?

I think you're entirely right in avoiding her, I think it is a very wise decision.

I'm afraid I don't understand the fuss about "choosing" between parents and partners. To my mind, getting married (or similar) means choosing your partner, and new family, first, forever.

Chandra sounds like she really knows what you're going through, and her plan for dealing with it all sounds very very sensible.

It's not a million miles away from my way of dealing with my own (much much much milder) MIL problems.

wwb - haven't read the whole thing, but just wanted to add support for you, it sounds miserable, mad that it's like this & still ongoing!! i really don't know how you put up with it - you must be MUCH stronger than you think you are!
x

Snowleopard, it's one of the things that really winds me up about dh - I think he does it because he wants to try and be impartial but I don't feel he should be ... he usually comes out with this stuff when I've been upset or annoyed by someone and all I want is for him to listen and understand how I feel, not try and understand someone else's point of view.

Chandra, I know you're right. I've read your posts about your MIL before and she sounds appalling - you seem to have it under control though. The problem that I can forsee is that stopping playing the good DIL is that it's dh who gets hurt and that would tear me apart. I'm not strong enough to handle that, I don't think.

NQC, we've been here before when I've spoken to him about her - he will be expecting that it will just pass as it has before. I can't let it drop this time though.

Thanks all.

Oh dear what a vile sounding one she is to be sure. Poor you, wwb. I deal with my in laws (who are lovely but overbearing, imo) by deciding when and how much I can bear to be in their company and trying very hard to stick to that- recently mostly successfully- even if they or my partner try and up the anti. So if moaning about going up to see them comes around I'll say fine- i can't make it but partner may be able to- over to him. Works well. For you it may be that a total cut off or twice yearly would be best. I think the bottom line is that she's dh's mum not yours. You don't like her (with very good reason) so it's up to him to arrange time with her for himself and dd. And buy her birthday presents. I think you are doing far too much of what is dh's responsibility and should hand the buck back to him.

Why would dh get hurt if you stopped playing the good dil? Are you trying to protect him from seeing what a witch his mum is?

WWB - so sorry, you are in a most horrible poition. I have never thought your MIL was a joke - just that inbetween some very funny outbreaks, she is a terrible MIL.

Sorry - haven't read the whole thread, just your OP - but I think that it is your DH who is the problem. He is actually undermining you as much as she is by not taking more of a perspective. He has no right to be so angry with you.

I honestly don't know what i would do about it. Maybe wait until there ISN'T an incident in progress, and then have a talk with him. Basically, if he thinks you are a good mother, he shouldn't be asking you to pander to his mother's pessure. Maybe explain that you and he are the parenting team, and although you are quite happy to have a family life with your MIL, and for your dd to have a great relationship with her gran, it is actually HARDER to do this because his position makes it harder for you. If he was to be firm with his Mum and stand alongside you, it would be EASIER to have the happier relationship he doubtless craves.

I do not think you are over-reacting, i think you have been patient, forbearing and kind, and it is time he backed you up.

Easier said than done, I know!

"I think he does it because he wants to try and be impartial but I don't feel he should be ... he usually comes out with this stuff when I've been upset or annoyed by someone and all I want is for him to listen and understand how I feel, not try and understand someone else's point of view. " Have you told him this? I think you are an aware and perceptive woman - tell him that you are sympathetic to her need to have a relationship with her dd, you DO understand how she feels, but soince he's so keen on other people's points of view...it's time he understood YOURS!

He thinks it's my perception that's wrong though - he thinks that he's doing the right thing by giving me all of the other sides of the coin. It seems that he thinks that if I understand everyone else's point of view then I can temper my own. He also thinks I'm paranoid and take everything his MIL does too personally ... as it's only me she behaves this way with, I'd say it was pretty personal.

Scummy, I really do think that it would be dh who would be hurt more than his mother. Maybe that's not my problem though. I agree that his relationship with his mother is his business, and that he should be able to conduct it without me, but we're a team in every other respect, and I think that it would probably make him feel like piggy in the middle - caught between the pair of us. Oh, I don't know, I don't really know what I think at the moment!

Blu, I know you're right. Perhaps I need to wait for a while and then talk to him again as you suggest. I did tell him on Sunday that he had undermined me just as much as she had when he refused to come home and accused me of over-reacting, but he doesn't agree and can't see that by not supporting me he has undermined me. He knows all about "divide and rule" - he won't let dd get away with it, but can't see that his mother is playing the same game. He seems to think that he has the right sometimes to treat me like his daughter rather than his wife - he has always had a bit of a tendency to do that and in fact it's something he used to do to his sister as well when they were younger so it's fairly deeply entrenched.

Which makes him sound an awful lot worse than he is - he's a good, kind man normally.

Wigwam - if you and your dh are a team he needs to treat you like his equal not his child otherwise you're not really a team at all.

WWB, how about we go out for a nice meal or shopping or something, if only to get you out the house and cheer you up a bit :) (also would be nice to see you again)

WWB, so sorry you are having such a horrible time with the old bag... I have giggled in the past too, but only because you are very funny about her, not because I don't know how grim it is to have someone judging you and sneering at you all the time. I've got two of them (mine and dh's) and between them they are turning my hair white.

I agree with Hunker's advice - your DH is doing what many men do in this situation, vacillating and dithering and trying to be "impartial". You need to take control of things and tell him, calmly and very firmly, that you will not be having anything to do with his mother any more. He will have no choice but to accept it. Nobody can force you to continue a relationship which is hurting and abusing you (and doing your little girl no good either). You did not marry his mother. And neither did he. If he can't get a grip, you'll have to make the decision for yourself and stick to it, with or without him.

Tell him to buy her birthday presents himself if he wants to celebrate another year of the old trout.

I hope you feel better today, you sound so miserable in your OP xxx

BTW - what did he get for her birthday present?!

I understand what you mean about the problem of stopping playing the good DIL being that it's dh who gets hurt and that would tear you apart.

But, you are already being teared apart(sorry don't know the past form for that verb, is "teared" correct? ). This will not stop until you put an end to it, you don't need to be confrontational, just a little "forgetful" and keep your cool but help your husband to understand that it is not a problem of perception.

I have been through that, DH blamed it on cultural differences>misundertandings, when his Spanish friends told him his mum was out of limits, he said things were always like that in his province; when people in the province disagreed on that he said it was because they were not really "nationals" of the province; it took for his best childhood friend to spent an hour telling him he was such an imbecile for allowing his mum to be such monster to his wife, that he finally understood something was not OK. Next day, my MIL confirmed it herself when she asked DH to decide between her and me. That's when she lost it, and DH finally realised that the only person who was perceiving things wrongly was himself.

Help him to put himself in your shoes, explain to him what has annoyed you but change the names for those of your family: "How would you feel if my father were telling your daughter to ignore you? how would he feel if your mother got him 10m of girly knickers elastic for Christmas? has he been in hospital? if so, help him remember how bad he felt and then ask him how would he felt if somebody said to him -while at hospital- that they were not really there because they cared about him?; or simply tell him, everytime that DD misbehaves, that you think that you need consistent with how you deal with DD's behaviour and that nobody (strangers, your family or his family) should be allowed to undermine your authority as parents...

WWB, it took me 7 years to finally do something serious to sort the situation, these years have been a misery at some points, my marriage was damaged, these years of constant humilliation have caused a lot of changes in me as well, even when things are now "under control" (TBH we are in a cold war like situation), these bitter feelings remain with me, they have changed me and made me a person I don't like, I snap back to people who have always been perfectly nice to me when they say something that, back in mind, sounds resemblant to MIL's comments. My patience is not the same, I have become a very resentful and unforgiving person. Don't let this situation make this to you. This situation is like tumor, it may hurt to take it out but if you don't, things are not going to get any better.

O my... have I wrote an essay or what?

Essays are fine, it's all very helpful!

Still feeling pretty crap about it all, although not so bad as I have been. I still feel as if I'm pretty much banging my head against a brick wall though. He didn't manage to get her a present yesterday, and seemed quite taken aback when he rang me earlier on to ask if I'd got her anything and I said no. I bought one for dd to give to her, which might look like giving in but I felt that as none of this is dd's fault it would be wrong not to chose something for her to give. He hasn't made much comment about the lack of present.

He really doesn't seem to have processed what I told him very well; he can't get to see his mother tomorrow (working in Scotland and won't be back until very late) and seems to be expecting me to take dd round to see her after school instead.

We do work pretty well as a team, despite the way it sounds - I know the way he resorts to treating me like a child sometimes doesn't seem to point to that but it's the only aspect of our relationship which isn't on equal terms, and it doesn't happen all that often (and usually in connection with his mother). Not excusing it, though - I hate it, and he knows I do.

Tamba, would love to get together again for a girlie mooch soon - when I can get back onto MSN I'll catch up with you.

Thanks all, it's reassuring to know that other people think this is unreasonable as well.

Hold strong WWB and don't take your dd round there. Your dh needs a short, sharp shock and to realise just how much this is effecting you and basically all of what Chandra said, an excellent post you need to take to heart.

I know what you are going through although my MIL was more sneaky and not so in-your-face. But she is now dead, hahaha. I feel dreadful that I was glad she died but all that bitterness ate away at her and lie after lie meant that dh wasn't there during her last few weeks. (We heard allsorts in the previous years, several "near deaths" and one case where her arm was going to be amputated!!!! It was getting beyond the realms of fantasy.) Now dh doesn't have contact with his remaining family, SIL took over the throne from the Queen Bitch and is doing an excellent job.

Remember, do this for your own sanity, you need, for once to be selfish. It sounds like you are too good to everyone and are forgetting to look out for yourself once in a while.