Just need to offload - can't take much more of my MIL

[WigWamBam]

I know she's something of a MN joke and everyone thinks she's funny, but my MIL has had me in tears all night last night and I really don't ever want to see the woman or hear her name ever again.

She has constantly and consistently undermined me and my parenting almost since the day my dd was born. The day after the birth she came to visit and was asked to leave after a few minutes because I was unwell (long labour, emergency section, blood transfusion, blah blah blah) and her response was "That's OK, no-one's come to see YOU anyway". The following day she came again while dh was at home, and when she got home she rang him to tell him what a crap mother I was - not talking to the baby enough, not cuddling the baby enough, not interacting (go figure; I was spaced out on morphine and in dreadful pain, and dd was spending most of the day asleep). And basically she has continued to undermine me in every aspect of my relationship with my daughter. She talks over me when I try to talk to dd or discipline her, she refuses to accept it when I say "no" to dd, she does things I have particularly asked her not to do.

Yesterday was my birthday, we'd had a nice day out and popped in to see her on the way home. We were only intending to stay for 20 minutes, so when dd asked if she could have her box of toys out I said no. She had paper and pencils, and was making things with the gift wrapping and ribbons from one of my presents so had plenty to play with. MIL kept saying "It's OK, they're not too difficult to get at, she can have them if she wants them", but I had said no because we weren't staying long, and MIL has been away from home for a while and her bags and cases were in the way of dd's toy boxes. When dd asked for the third time for her toys and I said no she started the emotional blackmail - started that fake crying that almost-5-year-olds are so good at. And my MIL hit the roof. She accused me of making everything horrible for my dd, spoiling her day, spoiling the time that we were spending there and yet again there was the implication (if not the stated opinion) that my parenting sucks. My dh told her that she was undermining me, which she denied, but when I asked to go home he wouldn't leave because he said I was over-reacting.

We did leave pretty soon, because I wouldn't stay and was going to walk home without him, but on the way home dh accused me of being paranoid about his mother (I'm not; you only have to read some of my posts about her to see what she's like with me). He has since told me that although he agrees she undermines me, I have to make allowances for the fact that she's in her 70s - basically I have to put up with her crap because she's old. As far as I am concerned, age is no excuse for her behaviour; she has all of her faculties, and she isn't losing her marbles - she just doesn't like me and she doesn't think I'm a good enough mother for her (only) grandchild.

It sounds like something really petty when I write it down, but it's really got to me this time. I have had 16 years of not being good enough for her son, almost 5 years of not being good enough for her grandchild, and I can't take this much more. Particularly if dh isn't prepared to support me against her. He phoned her last night when I was in the bath, I could hear him asking whether she was OK and how she was feeling ... he's now acting as if nothing has happened, and expecting me to go out tomorrow to buy presents for her birthday later in the week.

Sorry this is so long and rambling; I'm not sure why I'm posting it really but I'm so hurt and upset by it all and just need to get it out. There's nothing anyone can say to make it better or make it go away, I just need for someone to listen and understand. Sorry.

WWB I really do sympathise. Is she like this with her other relatives?

I know it's no excuse but sometimes older people do lose their sense of perspective, but most of them have other redeeming features. Sounds like your MIL has nothing to recommend her.

From what you say, it sounds like she is really taking advantage of your niceness and the fact that you won't say anything to her. I think part of the problem is that in your relationship with her you feel as if you have no control.

Well, I know it's easy for others to give advice and if I was in the same situation I would probably be the same as you. But what if you discussed your feelings with her in a calm and rational way and told her that you were very unhappy with things the way they are.

Even if she didn't try to understand at least you will have taken things into your own hands and done something about it. You can't be responsible for her behaviour but you can change your reaction to it.

I hope you feel better soon, these sorts of relationships are so draining.

WWB, it sounds as though your behaviour towards MIL has been examplary, and not letting your dd know of your true feelings for your MIL is very mature of you too.

But if you don't let out some of the antogonism you feel for her somewhere, you are going to burst. I hope talking about her here is helping, although I really do think your dh should be made to understand your feelings too. Could you get him to read this thread or would that be too much?

Saadia, she's not like this with anyone else but me. Which is another reason it hurts so much - it's completely down to her dislike of me for being my dh's wife and my dd's mother.

You can call me a wuss if you like but I can't talk to her. I'd be the one that came out of it looking like the villain, in any case.

LM, I know I'm going to burst. Or make myself ill, one of the two I feel at the end of my rope today and it's making me feel desperate. I don't know whether talking here is helping or not - I'm in tears as I'm typing and still feel at my wits end about it all.

WWB - I also think that talking to her would achieve nothing. In fact the last thing you need is for the old witch to know how much she bothers you.

Could you possibly go on strike? It doesn't have to be in a nasty way - just explain to your dh that you can no longer contribute anything to this relationship, so you're handing the responsibility over to him - buying presents, arranging visits etc. His mum, his responsibility. Bring the control back into your sphere if you can. I'm sure that creating some distance will make you feel better and obviously give mil fewer opportunities to get at you and may be the rocket your dh needs to realise just how tolerant you have been.

And no, you're not being petty at all.

I have told him before that I will no longer take responsibility for his relationship with his mother ... and yet again it's her birthday on Wednesday and he hasn't bought her anything, not even a card - so I will be expected to deal with it. I don't know why it should bother me that she would have to go without a birthday present from us, but it does bother me - it would almost bring me down to her level, I think.

Wigwam, she is a total cow. She is indulging herself with this meannness because she thinks she doesn't need you.

Ive read many of the things you have posted about her in the past, they are so similar to my own family, so I can imagine what you have to put up with, and completely sympathise.
Don't take this the wrong way - but why did you refuse the toys? if you were in you MIL's house, then she would have been the one clearing them up, surely? Maybe a little guile would have avoided a disagreement? Even though your MIL headed straight for a conflict situation that she could easily have avoided.

who is going to look after her when she is too old to look after herself, by the way?

WWB - so sorry you feel like this...
Re card - tell him you aren't buying it - and don't - I've been with dp nearly 20 years and have refused point blank to be come the repository of all birthday information! I remind him (sometimes), we have a calender with them all on, I don't give a stuff what my inlaws and his family think if they don't get a card - their his family not mine (and I quite like my mil...!) Its a principle thing..
No more advice really, just lots of support....

Nightynight, believe it or not I said that dd couldn't have the toys out because I was thinking of MIL. My dd has a toy box at MILs, but at the moment we can't get at it easily - MIL has got a lot of cases and bags in her room where the toys are kept. MIL doesn't like us going into her room, so she always gets the toys out herself and as she has bad arthritis and gout at the moment, I was trying to prevent her hurting herself to get the stuff out.

We weren't staying long, and had already told MIL that, and the toys that dd wanted take ages to set up to play with.

Maybe I should have just let her get on with it, I don't know. In hindsight perhaps it was obvious what would happen, but once I had said no I had to stick with it. Dd tries it on with the crying because she knows MIL will let her have anything she wants, but I know her better than MIL does and can tell emotional blackmail (and a put-on cry) when I see it!

Blackduck, I know she's not my responsibility but I still feel responsible - dh will think I'm letting him down, not her, if I don't buy the present for Wednesday. And that bothers me.

WWb is your DH an only child? Or does he have siblings? And if he does, are they brothers or sisters?

I agree that mothers' relationships with their sons are different than with their daughters, not more or less special in any way but I do think that some mothers find it harder to let their sons go than they do their daughters, possibly because of that expression "A daughter is your daughter for life, a son is yours till he takes a wife". I do think there is an element of truth in that, daughters often still rely on their mothers even when they leave home, help with wedding preparations, help with new baby when it arrives, but with sons when they find a wife the mother isn't generally needed for those types of things and can be left on the backburner a bit imo. After all, DHs' mothers are often referred to as the 2nd granny ... etc. If the DH's mother is nice then she will accept that her son isn't a baby any more and will welcome the new DIL into the home but some mothers have trouble letting go of their little boys and accepting that it's someone else's job to be there for them now. Is your FIL still in the picture? or has he seen the light moved on to a more attractive model?

I agree with NQC in that this is more about what happens between you and your DH. If your DH supported you totally, then this woman wouldn't have an effect on you because your DH would be right behind you supporting what you were trying to achieve with your DD etc. If you can achieve this, and it will take a lot of communication with your DH, then the impact of your MIL's actions will te that much less.

I had a similar experience not with my MIL but with Fil - we had a massive row when DS was a baby during which time he told me that I was basically a bad mother and the way I refused to pass DS round the room etc was harmful to him. The row went a bit deeper than that but he basically said some things to me that can't be unsaid and then basically didn't speak to me for two years, even in my own house. they would visit for entire weekends during which time he wouldn't speak to me at all. I never complained about him to my DH, but I knew that i had his wholehearted support. DH kept up his relationship with his family and Fil would never have dared slag me off, because we were a strong couple and he knew that DH would never have supported him against me. And meanwhile I was the dutiful daughter-in-law, would cook his favourite meals, make the effort to buy nice presents at christmas/birthday, helped FIL with the washing up when we went to stay, and reality is that he couldn't say a bad thing against me because I never gave him reason to. And now he talks to me all the time, don't know what did it, or even if it was Mil telling him not to be such a prat, but I feel that I'm the better person because I never rose to it and never let it get to me.

Good luck x

WWB, just to let you know that I have never, in 15 years of being with dh, bought any of his family a present or a card. Dh does it or it doesn't get done. It really is not your responsibility and this week, of all weeks, you are not to give in and go and get something for her! I would have to be housebound before it would occur to me to ask dh to buy something for my family. It is not as if shops are only open 9 to 5 anymore. My dh is away each day from 7 until 7 but still manages to do his own shopping if he remembers.

Don't cry. Put your foot down!

Reading your last post, when mil blew up, I would have turned to he and said, "Fine, let her have the toys then. I was only trying to save you some pain and bother you cantankerous old boot!" and would then have left the house.

But I am not suggesting you should have done the same!

Wannabee, dh has a younger sister - a head teacher, so another strong personality like her mother but more pleasant with it. I never met dh's dad, he died shortly before we got together, so I think that she relied (still does) on dh for a lot of the support that she would have had from him. Although it doesn't seem to have occurred to her that the two of us could support her a whole lot better than just dh alone.

It sounds as if your situation with your FIL was dreadful, I'm glad that you had the support of your dh and that you were eventually able to work it through. I'm sure that you're right that this is more about me and dh - but I don't know how to get him to support me without him thinking that I'm slagging his mother off. As I said, he tends to look at things from everyone else's point of view before he takes mine on board. Whatever else she is, she's also his mother and he loves her.

I have worked so hard at not rising to it, but it's eating me up.

If she wasnt a total cow, she would have seconded your "No" with a distraction for your dd, rather than pushing her own opinion.

I guess your options were; try to distract MIL; try to distract dd; stick to your guns; turn your No into a Yes, and let MIL get the toys out.

Id have been tempted to get every toy in the box out and then say brightly "Well, we have to go now!"

LM, I very nearly didn't end up with a birthday present myself from dh ... it was only the fact that my mother was here and literally dragged him around the shops on Saturday afternoon that I got anything at all. I can sort of understand the problem, he's only had a year to sort something out after all [sarcastic emoticon]

If he won't do it for me, there's not much chance he'll do it for her, much as I want him to! I don't know why I feel it's my responsibility to do it but I do - trouble is, I know that while I keep doing it, he won't take the responsibility for it himself.

WWB, I'm soooo sorry this is your thread Not that it'd be better if it were anyone else's but...oh, I hope you know what I mean.

This woman is poisonous. I know I've laughed in the past, but I hope you know that I realise what a nightmare it is to have someone like this in your life that you just can't cut out.

But I think it's time that you did. Like you say, you've had enough and she's having a huge impact on you.

What I would do in your situation is very calmly say to your DH that you are not having any more contact with his mother. You will not speak to her on the phone, you will not be going round there and you will not have her at your home.

And he can buy her bloody birthday present - you are definitely not to do that (unless you want to start a cheerier thread asking for present suggestions and you tell him that it will be of equal stature to the presents she gets for you).

If you don't enter into much conversation with your DH, he will hopefully realise how serious this is. If you start justifying with examples, you leave yourself open to him coming up with examples to weaken your position. Just say you have had enough, aren't prepared to discuss it any more and you would hope he's able to support you.

I wish I could give you a hug. Will be thinking of you though (and if you want pressie suggestions, just give us a shout ).

I think if there's one thing I'm sure about after reading post after post about nightmare inlaws, it's that I am going to make damn sure that my name doesn't appear on these threads in 20/30 years time as the Mil from hell.

Thanks hunker, that means a lot. Gah, you've got me crying again now but I know you're right.

Off to start that cheerier thread now, I think ...

Your dh really needs to grow up WWB (though my dh could do with this too as the only present he gave me for my birthday was a paperback book I had bought for myself - in mitigation, he did get some jewellery for the children to give me).

You must not feel any responsibility for buying her a present. But don't make things worse by not telling dh you won't be buying anything. Tell him tonight he must buy something himself so he has time to do it. Tell him when you are having the talk with him that HM has just described.

WWB, I think you are right in that you shouldn't have it out with her - it will be you that is seen as seeking a confrontation and if you are anything like me it will be a incoherent, raging, ramble that will not be the logical thought out speech you had prepared aforethought, and will not make you look or feel any better. I also think that your DH should take more responsibility for you and your feelings. He needs to take over the day to day running of his mother - let him buy the card and present. If he dosn't, then tough - I can't see how this can reflect badly on you - it is his mother... Most of all, I agree on the presenting a united front to your MIL - which means whipping DH into shape. If he will not agree to back you up 100%, I would withdraw from the battle ground. Do not prompt him to see her, invite her over, take her out. If he can't be bothered to put the effort into his relationship with his mother, then why should you take the brunt of it?? It would be interesting to see how the mother/son relationship fares without you putting in the unseen effort that you do...?

Ultimately I am so sorry that you have to go through this. It seems so unfair that this nonsense still goes on!

WWB, I totally sympathise with you, but you need to try to let go of as much of this as possible, because it's clearly not doing your sanity any good!
There are 2 things that WILL NOT change - your MIL and your DH's loyalty to her (he is her son after all). Parents and in-laws have that magic ability to press our hysterical buttons! But she won't be around forever. If you can take positive steps to avoid confrontation, stop being hard on yourself (which you are being by getting so upset) & hopefully developing a thick skin, then things will get easier. She's not going to change at her age, and it seems it's a case of finding the right coping mechanisms. Good luck!

Boots, you're right ... it's me that keeps his relationship with her the way going. But in a way I almost feel that removing myself from that would hurt him more than it would hurt her which is why it feels so hard to do it. You're also right that in a confrontation with her I would be a gibbering, incoherent wreck ... which is how I will probably end up when I have that talk with him that HM describes!

Thanks to everyone who has listened ... I do feel quite a lot better now for having "talked" about it. I just wish I was a stronger person than I am - it might never have reached this point if I were.

Hunker's advice is good.

I dont know what to say to you - its all been said really.

All i can say is that you need to try and put yourself in a position/mindset where what she says and does cant/wont hurt you. As someone else said - she wont change at this stage in life. So the less you see of her ie get DH to take DD to see Grandma, or have to do with her ie get DH to do the Birthday stuff the better.

Tell DH NOT to tell you what his "D"M thinks of your parenting skills or anything else - because you can do without hearing any more poison from her and no good can come from him passing this on to you.

Sorry she is making your life so miserable

wwb
Sorry if this is no help but....
first of all a big hug from me (hope you don't mind)
My ex-mil was like yours and used to drive me mad , she seemed to always be undermining my style of EVERYTHING!!
"Ooh, don't you rinse that first?"
" Havent you got a blah blah blah"
"Are you going to wipe the side first"
" you want to get yourself more organized girl"
" Oh, she doesn't know, bless her" (when I disciplined my DD for something she knew was naughty)
She treated me like a bloody kid.
She went on and on and on and only ever said negative things and never ever made me feel like a did anything right or was very good at anything.
Then it all changed, well she didn't ....I did.
I know my good points and my faults , you do too!!!
Its only what you allow to hurt you that can . It is sad that some people are just not very nice and nothing you can do can change that.
Mine used to reinforce worries I had about my own performance as a wife and Mother etc . She unwittingly (I think because she is too thick to do it intentionally)pushed buttons just by opening her mouth.
Strangely enough she comes to see me every week , is still exactly the same but I just have a sneeky joke behind her back at her lack of tact and judgement. It's all water off a ducks back now because nothing I do will change her.
I bet she would be exactly the same whoever her Son married.
Sorry so long
XXX

WWB - why not write it all down - you could start with a pros and cons list to all aspects of the mother/son/DIL relationship and see how that develops....it may throw up an obvious pattern that you had not thought of. I am a firm believer in lists and the written word. It may just give you a starting point for talking to your DH and a guideline to keep the discussion on track and not veering off into the too personal? You say that if he was left to manage his relationship with his mother, he may well hurt him more than it hurts her - well, possibly you have to let him experience this as it is the only way he will understand the effort you put into this woman and keeping his relationship with her on an even keel. He is the sacred son, let him earn that title for a while, it may surprise him just how hard it is...

I think you'd be well within your rights to quietly tell your DH that you want to disengage from contact with her, as you feel the relationship is unhealthy, but you don't wish to come between him, her and your daughter. Just don't beat yourself up wondering what she's saying behind your back