A question for you: is SAHM/D a *job*?

[AllQuietOnThePippisFront]

That's it really.

More simply
SAHM housework is a 'chore' - looking after DC is 'parenting' - SAHMs do both but they are two very separate things - housework isn't parenting.

What about things like deciding on an education strategy for your DCs - where you would like them to go to school, what extra-curricular activities or holiday courses you think they should do, what work experience etc. Is that a job? Private schools offer full packages that parents pay a great deal of money for; if a parent does that stuff him or herself, is it not a job?

Housework is a job. You can employ a housekeeper or a cleaner to do that particular job if you don't have the inclination or time to do it yourself.

It's not a job as you are not employed by someone to do it paid or unpaid. I think it's just living life really. Some people choose to live their life employing other people to do the things that need to be done, such as cleaning, cooking looking after the kids. Some people choose to do these things themselves.

We often have this discussion as writers.

If you're not published, can you say your job is writing? Or are you a writer by the sheer act of writing?

Does money need to change hands? Do you need some sort of success?

trixymalixy - the definition of job is not "paid employment".

If you can outsource it, it's a job!

But you can outsource everything is you really want to.

You could pay someone to tie your shoelaces if you had enough cash.

When DH was SAHP he did very much see it as his job just as my job was to earn the cash. We both did our jobs well and enjoyed a very nice lifestyle. DH ensured that the house ran smoothly. If I was told I had to fly off the following day to a meeting, I could without having to sort anything out other than pack a bag for myself.

There was no resentment on either side. DH is just better at the whole household/hands on parenting stuff than I am. I am better than him at earning money!

wordfactory - I think if there is some kind of output that is useful to anyone other than the producer, yes, it's a job.

If I sing to myself in my apartment, that is not a job.

I'm self employed but at the early stages of my business, only have one client as I can't really focus on my work until the autumn when I have childcare. I still class it as my job, I'm working albeit on a very part time basis, the money issue is irrelevant.

Bonsoir point me to the part of my post that says I would define a job as "paid employment"? I said the definition of a job IMO is being employed by someone to do something whether paid or unpaid I.e. Outsourced.

wordfactory thank you! Yes writing or acting could be a good analogy (prostitution was not liked very much, understandably).

I think you decide as a family what level of self-care you expect (so obviously the boundaries of what you think you can outsource have some kind of cultural component). But anything that is generally easy to outsource/commonly outsourced (like housework) generates a "make or buy" decision for the family - do we do the job ourselves or do we pay someone else to do it? And, if we choose to do it "ourselves", which particular self are we talking about?

gosh I am going to throw a bit more wood in the fire (still thinking out lous here): if one is a single mother and did not work one might see it as others have said 'part of life' 'just things you have to do' rather than a job, but if there is a husband which has a 'job' would one feel more strongly that what one does is a job? possibly because one does things for another adult (who outsources it to you) or because one has to counterbalance his idea of 'working'?

wondering...

I guess so as you would want your contribution to family life to be as valued as that of the person bringing in the money. It still doesn't make it a job IMO, but I think in households where the one going out to work has some resentment or is expecting to make no further contribution then the SAHP has to try and raise the value of their contribution in their partners eyes. Sometimes they do this by referring to it as "their work" or "their job".

And just to clarify, just because I don't class being a SAHP as having a job doesn't mean I don't think it's a valuable thing to do. Far harder IME than having to go out to work sometimes .

Some WOHPs really rate what SAHPs do, trixymalixy! Especially when they have known both family configurations.

And viceversa. The ideal is when both are valued as different but equally good and fundamental contribution.

Anyway, more definitions or views?

No it's not a job - it's something you do instead of a job (and if you have a job then you can't be one!).

Of course it is a job, because someone has to do it, or has to do all the things encompassed by it. Not doing those things would be bad, would have deleterious effects on your family. They are things that have to be done.
If your family doesn't have a SAHP, all those things still have to be done, either as second jobs (or second part time jobs) by the WOHPs, or as outsourced work which other people are paid to do, or combinations thereof.

Indeed, vezzie.

When my family complains that one of the myriad invisible jobs that I do day-to-day hasn't been accomplished to their satisfaction, I tell them that I will not fail to inform the little fairies that fly around the house doing them while I lie on the sofa

My friend tells her DH to 'get a quote for it' when he whinges about x or y not being done.

Thing is, one needs to draw attention to the stuff one does, so they don't think the fairies do it. But one must avoid endleslsy listing it (boring!!!!!) or worse, talking up every chore, as if it were life shattering (makes you look bloody daft).

Do you know what your Myers-Briggs personality type is, wordfactory?

I don't even know what that is

Google is your friend