A question for you: is SAHM/D a *job*?

[AllQuietOnThePippisFront]

That's it really.

Soupdragon, I have said it before but I guess I am interested in terms of use of language but also in terms of how people see it.

Hazledoll- strangely, I knew that already.

The way people see it depends on which side of the fence they are looking from.

Not many other people have to continually justify themselves.

Soup of course I am aware is a super sensitive topic but that is why I am asking. I'd like to see if there is a clear difference in def and perception between those who are sahm and those who are wohm, for one. Plus, now that you say it, I wonder if it is so sensitive and people feel they have to defend themselves because of motherhood per se, or because of the undefinied position of sahm/d, and the holiness that sometimes it attaches itself to in rel to wohm/d.

I am a SAHM for most of the year if that helps.

(and by the same token the vast majority of judgeypanting I've seen tends to be from the SAHM towards the WOHM)

I think it is "sensitive" (in inverted commas because for me, personally, I don't have to explain my choices to anyone and care less what they think) only in the respect that there is nothing worse on this earth than a group of women slagging off other women's (different) choices.You only have to look at the breast/bottle, private/state debates to see it. All very yawny after the first million or so times.

But that's why I am asking. There is a general anxiety about both roles really. (generalising) the sahms feel holy for their self-sacrifice and so may attack the wahm, the wahm on the other hand looks down at the sahm; both have to defend their positions against men and society in general. even those like you who say I do not have to justify your position (true) feel as if they are constantly challenged and exercise the right not to get involved. My interest stems from this: the position in which we all seem to be, whichever the side of the fence, a fragile one which we hold on to and protect with baring teeth.
take homosexuality, for example. because it is very differently by various people: a choice, an illness, a deviance, etc one feels that it has to justify, explain,defend themself. even chosing not to is an active stance. Where it is not challenged there's nothing to explain, because it is defined 'universally'.

and I agree, def yawny and wrong, but it is def a presence and so I wanted to look at it.

Call it a research project. Or a beginning of one possibly.

(how are you btw? we were in your side of the world last summer)

There is a recurrent error of thinking on MN that job = "paid employment"; worse still, that, to be a job, a task must be performed by a person with precise qualifications to precise instructions within an institutional context with an awful lot of rules and regulations.

I take it that you'd define it as a job then Bonsoir?

I think it's an unpaid job.

The way I, and my friends, go about it - yes, it's very much a job. The multiple tasks we perform are difficult to outsource effectively, which is why we choose not to do so.

Bonsoir when you say 'on MN' it makes me bring uo another issue which would affects the findings of this thread: is MN a reflection of RL or is it something different from it. According to the rape campain a MN poll could reflect the opinion of RL, or are MNetter not an enough heterogenous group to do that?

I'm a SAHM and I do think it's a job, it's certainly work.

"findings" is too big a word but you get the idea. Findings for me because I can see a whole new field of investigation opening up for me...

The error of thinking that "job = paid employment within a regulated institutional context" is recurrent on MN but not one I have ever encountered in RL. But business people are probably over-represented in my own RL, and business people think about things like added value and performance which many MN posters don't understand at all.

Hmmm. Difficult one OP.

When I did a stint as a SAHM it certainly didn't feel like a job. Nor indeed a full time role.

I suppose it's not a job in the way I personally would think of it. Part of that, perhaps, is that, in the normal run of things, you can't leave it as you can a job - it's with you for life, its 24 hr, etc. And its so much more than a job - you're not doing it for the money, in fact you're doing it despite loosing money, and instead of a paid role.

No I don't think it's a job.

A role, yes, but not a job.

MN definitely not real life.

Parallel universe possibly

I thought that was you Pippi, but it's been a loooong time. All tickety boo in Arse End...and your good self?

To confuse the semantics even further, I think SAHM-ness is work (and the hardest I've ever bloody well done) but I still don't think it's a job.

Work. It's work to me, but not a job.

Yes its a job. Doing the shopping is a job, putting on the dishwasher is a job etc etc etc. Looking after children is also a job

Bonsoir - hilarious implication that everyone on MM doesnt understand you!!

Do you ever think that you are transferring the focus you put into your previous job to your DD ? I admire your determination as I mentioned on a previous post, I do want to offer my DD certain advantages but does it need to be so well professional?

No
I think a job is something where you take on additional responsibility either to someone or to do something and as a SAHM you don't take on additional responsibility as it is yours already.
but tis tricky as I was thinking whether I would think a grandma looking after her grandchildren had a job and I would still think not - and taht doesn't fit the definition - maybe a job requires set criteria/performance obligations

I dont think being with your own children is ever a job/work that would be like being with your husband, mum, dad, siblings etc and seeing it as work. I think its strange if you describe any relationships with your own family as work, but I dont agree marriages are work either and a lot of people say they are.

snapsnap - no, I wasn't particularly focused on my working life because I found it very monotonous - I needed a lot of shopping and restaurants distractions to keep going. I have very strong feelings that parents should allow their children to fulfil their potential as children as I think that children that have had that possibility as children make better adults.

I am pretty horrified by some of the jobs some adults prefer to raising their children - empty, immoral even.