Are you a feminist?

[spacedonkey]

I was born in 1968, so I'm one generation on from the 1960s/1970s women's rights movement generation. Growing up I was more focused on hating Thatch than women's issues - it seemed the battle for equality had been won. But it hasn't. And increasingly I find myself reaching for the dungarees, so annoyed do I get about the continuing inequalities women experience (still paid less than men, getting sacked for being pregnant, still doing most of the unpaid work in the home, not to mention the tyranny of "beauty" etc).

Where is feminism these days?

So is the fight against racism equally exclusive, Custy? It is women who are disadvanted by gender, not men.

I have belonged to a few feminist groups/organisations in my time and have yet to come across a feminist who hates men or who does not believe in equality for all.

Equality for all sounds fine in principle but reminds me of the old socialist idea that socialism would cure all ills and therefore a woman's movement was divisive and unecessary. That's why women always ended up making the tea...

Aloha, completely agree about presenteeism.

I worked in an office where we did loadsawork 9-5. Then two new senior (male) members of staff replaced then boss and everything went to pot. Productivity went down; presenteeism went up. They felt that everyone should be in the office 9am-9pm and be at beck and call etc. I lasted about 8 months before I chucked in the job, having been mostly happy with that company for almost 10 years.

One of those men had family; the other not. Unsurprisingly the one with family didn't have great family life whereas previous boss had had excellent family life with balance great.

I suppose it depends whether you fall into the "some pigs are more equal than others" trap.

I've always thought that there are somethings that women are better at and somethings that men are better at. And there are just some smart arses who are good at everything.

So no, not feminist at all.

feminism has nothing to do with what things people are good at!

Pfer isn't it possible to be different but still be treated equally? I am a good dancer and my husband is a good singer, that doesn't mean we're not equal.

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excellent question pruni!!!

I think that Custy would say that Feminism detracts from a more fundimental drive for greater equality accross the board. She isn't a 'yes sir no sir' kind of a gal!

However I have disagreed on this point before, and feel that because there are specific issues that affect women more than men, reproductive rights, for example, and because these are often 'overlooked' by men, women need to be able to 'fight thier own corner'

The same is true for racial equality IMHO. Nice white middle class guys don't have the insights of a black working class woman, IMHO.

Exactly MB - that was the problem with old school socialism. It would bring about the promised land for all. But if you don't look at the way women are disadvantaged, you won't actually change those things.

I grew up in the home of an ald styple socialist! My dad was a smashing man, spentt his whole life working for the benefit of others ( I kid you not!), but he still expected his tea on the table every night and wouldn't have recognised my mothers needs or aspirations if she had smacked him on the face with a kipper!

It wasn't that he was a bad man, he was just a man! And he never, ever, questioned his role in the house, or hers...it was just utterly beyond him.

Good q pruni, interested to see if anyone who doesn't call themselves a femininst can answer it.

I asked Custy that once before, I think, and she gave me the answer I mentioned.

Other people on a previous thread said that they were not feminists becuaes they were not 'anti' men. An argument I had less time for....

I think custy is right about this one, feminism is a historical movement now, that campaigned for specific political changes (vote and right for equal pay). what we need now is genuine equality of opportunity for all.

I disagree with this line. Women still face discrimination, and in some respects it is getting worse (e.g. rape convictions and attitudes towards rape victims, and the pervasive "beauty" tyranny). These are issues which are women-specific.

but nn and others, women consistently aren't paid the same as men, even for the same jobs! That's fact, not conjecture!

the feminism was the movement that campaigned for a specific goal, which was the change in the law.
what is needed now is that the law is applied, and this is relevant across the board, not just to feminist issues.

rape convictions is a whole issue on its own. I dont agree with the majority view on mn, but the opinions expressed were so vitriolic, that I am not prepared to put my head above the parapet with my point of view.

I guess you could define a new feminist wave around this issue, but I wont be part of it judging by last years mn thread on the issue.

what's the majority view on mn re rape? Presumably that the conviction rate is too low?

I don't see how rape convictions is a separate issue nn. It is an issue that affects women and seems to reflect a very worrying general trend. I also find it very worrying that large numbers of women are still losing their jobs (or not getting jobs in the first place) because they are pregnant or even just because they are of childbearing age (there was a programme on about this a few weeks ago, and it was truly shocking and focussed on several cases from highly paid middle class women through to low paid working class women).

Meant to add - if these are not feminist issues, then what are?

I feel sad that so many women seem to have swallowed the myth that feminism has done its job.

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me too sd