Are you a feminist?

[spacedonkey]

I was born in 1968, so I'm one generation on from the 1960s/1970s women's rights movement generation. Growing up I was more focused on hating Thatch than women's issues - it seemed the battle for equality had been won. But it hasn't. And increasingly I find myself reaching for the dungarees, so annoyed do I get about the continuing inequalities women experience (still paid less than men, getting sacked for being pregnant, still doing most of the unpaid work in the home, not to mention the tyranny of "beauty" etc).

Where is feminism these days?

it's just definately that really gets to me, martianbishop! it's not a typo, it's ignorance. yeah, so, wtf but wtf.

Easy if you can spell, trust me I can't. It isn't that I am lazy or stupid. I would probably get a dx of dyslexia nowerdays, I have most of the traits.

I laugh about it, but people having a go gets to be really old and can be very hurtful.

Drinking wine so cane=t be bothere to type speech. aGREe with anchovies post.

sorry. definitely don't think you're stupid! or anyone else.

Message withdrawn

Oh yes, I am. I haven't experienced discrimination at work or in education and have a dh who is absolutely perfect in terms of respect and equality, but the home environment I grew up in almost certainly shaped my feminism. Growing up with an older brother very close in age to me, I was always very aware of just how much more than me he was allowed to do and how much less faith my parents had in me - not academically, as they themselves always said that I was the academic one, but in terms of independence and making own decisions. It was partly to do with other factors (health, their own pasts etc.), but a large part of it was gender. Their attitude was that a daughter belongs to the parents until they give a man their permission to 'take her away'. Eventually, my selection of an (in their opinion) unsuitable partner caused them to cut me off.

back to feminist issues, i guess.

Anchovy lives in a perfect world? At least at home.

Sansouci, does masculinism exist? (I know quoting's considered bad netiquette but so many posts have been written since!)

I had an interesting talk with someone about this quite recently. Through talking with him, I felt that not masculinism but misogyny is on the rise and that common views seem to be reverting to the 'male gaze' perspective in an effort to undermine the work of feminism (or the movement for equal rights.)

It irritates me beyond belief that the word 'feminism' is commonly (wrongly) used in place of 'misandry'. The line between the two is blurred, I feel this accounts for some of the male gaze and the misogynistic backlash.

I am a feminist, I'm not a man hater but so many feminist women are accused of such that feminism is now seen as negative by many males who seem concerned that we are attempting to attain status above, rather than equal to them and are retaliating. I think to refer to misogynism as masculinsim is as bad as referring to misandrists as feminists, it's just not accurate.

There may be a place for a masculinist (as feminist, in the true sense of the word) movement though....

....this same man I spoke with felt that there is a need for masculinism in that he felt men often have more physically demanding, dangerous jobs. That they were less likely to seek medical treatment and more likely to suffer from work related hazzards and not assure adequate health and safety measures at work. He felt that if masculinism were to exist, it should be to highlight and change these issues, so, a different set of issues rather than battling the opposing side of feminist issues.

(He spoke with the wrong person really. I worked with horses and in farming for a large part of my time before children (whom I chose to be at home with). So I have experienced the above issues which he seemed to feel were related only to the male workforce. In my opinion, they're not! That's what I get for trying to discuss feminism with a chauvanist )

Feminist? Yes

Senior Manager in large USA based International company, DP is staying at home to raise DS, as I want to return to work and I earn significantly more money than him.

Have to admit has been a fight to get equal billing at work, when first got job, I was accused of sleeping with boss, luckily for me, boss wasn't that sort of ar**hole, he gave me job on merit and then sorted out my money so I actually earn more than anyone he feels doesn't actually do as good a job as me!

But do feel boss is rare, think others wouldn't have done what he has.

Hmm - not a perfect world at home, but striving!

At work, I am in a position where I can call some of the shots and help create the environment in which I and others work. So I have to try and balance the needs of the business against the needs of the individuals working in it. Which isn't easy, either way. But the more women there are who are prepared to be in that position the more there is a trickle down effect that should benefit others (which is sort of why I hate Margaret Thatcher: because I don't think you should look at things only from a women's perspective, but I think it benefits everyone if you look at the entire perspective).

I am a feminist, but my DH thinks I am a 50's housewife sometimes and it narks me to death.

Shortandstripy I think that some of this is certainly true, and some of the issues are also to do with the success of feminism and the changing workforce. Certainly on the health front it used to be that all medical advances were, in general, tested on white men (all those medical students for example...) and therefore not very useful for other populations. Then there was a lot of campaigning about women's health (in particular breast cancer) and now there are real concerns about men's health, mostly where men are unlikely to seek treatment (my PCT has a men's health team who do outreach in pubs, for example).

My dh feels that there is quite a lot of misandry about too (anti men jokes etc) and I think this is probably true - but then there are also page three girls too. So it is still considered legitimate to objectify women, it's just that that is creeping in for men too (as can be observed in rising cases of anorexia in boys).

Personally I don't believe that I have experienced direct discrimination, but I work in the Health Service, which is very female dominated. I would describe myself as a feminist, but as part of being what I think of as an "individualist" ie that everyone should have the opportunity to be who they want to be. But having spent time with the generation above me at work (I'm a 70's baby myself) I am full of admiration for the battles they went through that have enabled me to achieve what I have in my working life.

Can you imagine people being afraid to say racism is wrong because they might be seen as anti-white? I can't. So why on earth are women afraid to discuss gender discrimination in case we upset men? As if they are poor delicate little flowers who are incapable of protecting their own interests.

My fear is that feminism has lost. Society seems to be reverting back to pre-feminism in many ways ? look at entertainment for instance, magazines and television. Or any discussion about the appallingly low level of conviction for rape ? you'll get plenty of people (including women, sadly) blaming the victims. Racist attitudes are now generally socially unacceptable, quite rightly, but sexism is seen as OK, and anyone who objects to it must be an extremist nutter.

Edam - where did anyone on this thread suggest that we shouldn't discuss gender discrimination for fear of upsetting men?

That appears to me to be a pretty trite comment on a thread that actually has been quite intelligent and thought provoking!

exactly edam - it was the recent debate about rape convictions (or lack of them) that really set me off thinking about this again

soapbox - I got the same impression as edam!

although I have just looked back over the thread and no-one has actually said that - I was thinking of our slight altercation when we were talking at cross purposes

Well I think a lot of comments were made about the label of feminism and what it means to various people. But I can see very few posts which suggest that suggests that talking about gender discrimintion is not on in case we upset men!

Perhaps I'vce missed something, although I;ve been following this one pretty closely as I;ve been stuck at home with a cold

No, you're right soapbox

Although I think a lot of women are reluctant to use the label "feminist" and I do agree that things seem to have moved backwards in some respects

Perhaps you are right SD - but maybe because those in teh chattering classes think they've cracked it - or at least made some credible progress. Forgeting of course, that women in other social classes are still faced with teh paucity of opportunity that they always had.

Bit of I'm alright Jack creeping in maybe?

Wasn't having a go at all. Thinking more generally about conversations I've had about this topic recently. And there have been a few threads in the past where people have worried that feminism somehow denigrates men.

Actually, Soapbox, your comment about men being terrified by the feminist backlash gave me a wry smile. We hardly put the fear of God into them, did we? When they still earn up to 40 per cent more than us purely by virtue of being men?

My feeling is (I say that because I'm not incredibly well informed on this!) that the increasing objectification of women affects all classes. But yes, of course, working class women are less advantaged than middle class women in terms of education and employment - as has always been the case?

to me feminism conjures up a picture of a fight for womens equality. i am more interested in ....err...equality for all. i think it detracts from a larger argument

Edam, IME they don't earn 40% more just by virtue of being men, but by being willing to sell their soul to work in a way that most women would balk at!

And of course all the 'little women' (in their eyes) sitting at home facilitates this.

If we want a world where there is more equality in earnings than there currently is, then we are going to have to be prepared to work for it. For many families this will mean women having to go out to work to make up for the shortfall in men;s earnings from reduced hours in working.

As women we need to be sure that this is a road that we are willing to travel along.

Twiglet and Issymum alluded to it earlier, but to be equal, means that we might all have to work, not through choice but because that is what is demanded of us. That might be a very hard step for some women to take????

that's only partially true soapbox - women are paid a lot less on average (not talking about particular professions here) because women's work is less valued