is mumsnet sexist?

[Tortington]

just wondering?

Isn't the only reason it's called Mumsnet because it was a group of Mums that had the initiative?

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You're right to pick me up on that, Jasper. In hindsight I don't feel it was at all appropriate to single someone out as an idiot and I'm sorry, dadslib. I'm not sure about gender issues here though- the source of that thought was the recent deleted wife swap thread, coupled with the tone of many of dadslib's contributions which I've struggled to view positively, I have to say. I can't think offhand of anyone else who's done the equivalent of posting someone's address and personal details up to scare another poster, but I guess if it was someone whose posts I liked I might well have been less judgemental. So I have treated dadslib unfairly here, I think. I do apologise, dadslib, for being a rude idiot myself.

yes, it's not on to post anyone's personal details up here, or threaten to do so. The joke was idiotic - can't comment about the poster. I didn't see that thread or the wifeswap thread at the time, but it's not nice to threaten to 'out' someone. Sadly, from reading other threads, I don't think this is the first time it has been done, though, even if this example was apparently the most blatent.

just wondering, why don't any couples post on mumsnet? With over 10,000 subscribers, there's so far not one husband and wife who each post here regularly. Can't wait for that to happen. Sadly I won't be starting this trend. My dh hates the internet.

how do people get personal details........a little freaked by that.or was the person known to them?

is it sexist?...who cares? I come on here for a bit escapism. My family life is very hard I cant see how people get so offened by posts, honest. I have found the special needs board to be particually helpful and I am so grateful to EVERYONE on there because it has helped me so much

Can we get this whole M2T/DL debate behind us ?????

Tigermoth - isn't there aBobsmum and Bobsdad or someone similar who posts sometimes?

My husband wouldn't dream of posting on here. I think he feels it wouldn't fit his masculine image (and really it needs all the help it can get - he's a bit of a teddy bear. He posts on forums about computer games though....

uuummmmmmmm..........husbands? mine doesnt understand mumsnet Good really

Just a thought-I'm going to check out the "male " websites tonight. I think that most women open up during conversation more than men and I think it's because men are "supposed" to be hard etc and not worry/cry. Looking at it from a male point of view, it would be really interesting as a man to visit this website and learn new stuff about, pregnancy, babies and stuff etc as I bet there are loads of women/mums who can't/won't discuss really personal stuff with their dh/dps. I mean the really icky stuff about having babies, like "Do I smell funny" and things that you could only really ask someone who you were totally comfortable with and in some cases, women can't ask their dh/dp for fear of embarassing themselves or the other person. Having seen a few dodgy threads, won't name them as it would be giving them credence, I do wonder sometimes if there are people on here who are not genuine. I don't necessarily mean MEN, before everyone gets excited and calls me all those names (sniff,sob,) but as one of my oldest male friends said, "How many women paeds are there, go on, name one in the press" and I couldn't. It goes on, I have a close friend who's a policeman and believe me, he knows! It shocked me and I thought I was really unshockable. However, drifting off the point-I love it when my dh reads some of the threads (rabbits!) and we can have a good laugh together but sometimes I will say to him that I'm reading something and it's very girly and not for his eyes. He can read it if he wants but it's usually one of those threads that make me cry and TBH, he just doesn't see why it affects me. HOWEVER he always gives me a hug, usually saying comforting things and I admire and respect him for that. I am genuinely interested to find out what men talk about on web sites and I will go through them. It must be hard being a guy, especially if your dp/dw knows, or seems to know, so much about babies and you don't. I wonder, if there was one question that men could ask about pregnancy/birth (and this is genuine) what it would be? Are you scared/worried about your wife and baby. I know my DH was when I had to have an emergency section-it really was touch and go and he didn't know which of us he wanted most...that was a really hard time for him and I give him loads of respect, "cos not only did he have all that on his plate. he went home and sorted out the other three kids as well. Well, hope that hasn't inflamed the nasty situation that was going on this morning-this is a genuine chance for dads/men to give an opinion. Simon H, where are you? LOL (and I'll be checking out the webnsites later-by the way, do you blush when you're reading some of the comments. 'cos even I go "OMG, NO..she didn't" or "how could any child do that..!" LOL

Well Jolly, you won't find much on our site - we completely replaced the forum software and dbase about a month ago and the forum started from scratch. But I would say that us blokes do find it much harder discussing stuff online - our forum has not really got going yet.

Some thoughts on the discussion...

• there's only one user on here who seriously thinks this is a women's only space that us men should enter - but that's a bit delusional really - this is the web, after all, and it's open to all - me, women, children, wierdos - whatever. Unless you create invite only forums, that's how it has always been and always will be. I think people should always try to remember that this is an open forum - the point about our children reading stuff is very pertinent, particularly for those of us with boys - it's difficult enough nurturing boys with a healthy and strong sense of their own masculinity without them seeing stuff on the net that essentially condemns their sex.

• as I've said before, my understanding is that Justine/Carrie would like the site to be open to all, and that is reflected in the 'by parents for parents' stuff.

• most men don't go near 'parents' sites in general, because 'parent' in our culture is code for 'mother'. Some do, but I think even fewer come to 'mumsnet' because of the name. However, the quality of discussion on mumsnet is good, and occasionaly, I enjoy dipping into the banter. I do like to point out when people are being misandrist, because, well, I don't like it - just like any number of women don't like misogyny. And I've debated gender issues with women for nearly 20 years and it's just something that I pick up on. I guess I'm liable to post 'to my agenda', but if you run a search on my name you'll see that out of the 70 odd topics I've posted on, a good number of them are about parenting/kids as well.

• people who post on here are a diverse group - some take those kinds of issues seriously, others don't - some like debate, others don't - some like men, others don't. S'cool with me. It can be a difficult medium though, because irony/sarcasm is hard to detect in text. But people are responsible for what they write and if something is offensive, they should be held to account for what they have written, even if it's offensive to men.

• I think sexism is a complex subject, and what it refers to is much more serious than what happens on a forum - we're talking about discrimination in real life that affects people's livlihoods, their careers etc etc. What happens on this board is more plain hostility towards men (only from a few), or even the carelessness that comes when people feel they've got a cosy female club, forgetting that this is a site open for all to view. It doesn't really affect me cos I am used to it, but it does dissapoint me when women who claim equality for women fail to do the same for men.

• when discussing prejudice, it's usually most interesting to hear the voices of those who the prejudice is directed against. There are very few men here to comment, but I would echo StuartC's comment that I've had abuse 'heaped' upon me at times, and very often I feel that the poster's frustration with the men in their lives is being projected onto me - after all, no one here has actually met me - you have no idea what kind of parent I am etc etc. I think when men are saying the same kind of thing about their experience on the board, it would be wise to take that on board (no pun intended).

• I'd also like to say that it's often a very good experience being a man posting on here - although the attention is akin to the kind of comment you get in the street on a weekday, when pushing a buggy, we get ladies (often older ones, it has to be said), who coo and say "ooh look - aren't you clever looking after the baby by yourself". To understand how this feels, it's akin to a man coming up to you at work saying "Ooh look - aren't you clever - you're actually working in a real job" - it's patronising. At the end of the day, I'm someone who looks after a three year old, and often it's nice just to read through the issues that are relevant to me as a parent, but the misandry really does catch my eye and I jump in, often before I've looked where I'm leaping...

Enough - I'm rambling now - sorry - hope I've made some sense.

Well said!

I've been away for the week and missed all the drama. Probably just as well.
Bobsdad posts on here very infrequently, usually to defend himself after one of my posts about him. (See p0rn thread ). He posts (rather too) regularly on nthellworld (a forum for disgruntled NTL customers) and is very established there. He loves a good debate and a rant, but would never get into a chat thread or a nitty gritty "woman's trouble" thread. I think he sees Mumsnet as "my" forum and so reads theads often, but holds back on posting because he's got his own board.
Last time he posted here, he said he could see the tumbleweeds blowing across the street and the jukebox stop abruptly when he walked in

I've only read parts of this thread and don't really have a comment but I'd be really interested in checking out some of the dads sites. If anyone has a link that they wouldn't mind sharing...

You make some good points Tom. Bobsmum, I'm sorry that your dh felt like that. My dh often reads the boards here and sometimes wants to post, but thinks he will be hounded out too. I do think that when a man on here is disagreed with, the insults start flying more than a woman/woman disagreement, and that is a shame.

Tom i just read your last post and it could be paranoia but i think you are referring to me. PLEASE let me set the record straight if so! I posted first on this thread, (in reply) and i was having a very bad day! I know that's no excuse but i was and i took it out on here! I don't actually think there's anything wrong with men on here and i am not sexist by any stratch of the imagination, even though it came across that way! It's like when you say something and think"oh God why did i say that?" By the time i'd posted.too late! Forgive me if i've offended as i love it on here and never mean to deliberatly offend

Well, look at that, I go away for the weekend and miss a riot. Bah! I love my dh and I worship my ds, have seen my dh suffer at the hands of his evil ex and I find the male viewpoint is often very interesting...but...I do very much enjoy the girls world quality of mumsnet. Other posters are my virtual work colleagues, and having worked in magazines I'm used to 99.9% female workforce and do miss it a bit (I also went to a girls' school). I prefer women to men generally - don't have a single male friend (though really like several of my friend's partners) so it suits me to post here. I think men's posts often have a very different style fo women's posts - much more direct and directive - ie men seem more likely to say something like 'This discussion is pointless. What we should be debating is X", which seems very male to me. Tom's 'attempt to separate the issues' seems also to be part of the male worldview - less flowing and natural, more sorted and organised - and this does, to me, stand out. It's the equivalent of sorting your CDs alphabetically! I don't mean that as a personal criticism, Tom, I'm sure you would agree that there is a hell of a lot of evidence that men and women interact differently, and I think sometimes those differences stand out more than at other times. Having said that, I have annoyed plenty of people (and vice versa!!) and I'm sorry about that, because the benefits of being here far outweigh any problems.

Angeliz - I wasn't referring to you

Aloha - there is nothing wrong with sorting out your cds alphabetically - as long as you sort them into genre first.... Or is it just me?

Been busy with new baby this weekend, so missed this thread kicking-off. Don't know or care if it's sexist, as a SAHD, I'd be lost without it.