Gas Masks/Nuclear War!!

[Mima]

Have been reading with interest in the papers the last few days about the panic buying in both British and US shops for gas masks and I wondered if any Mumsnet members are "panicking" and buying such things. Also just heard on the news about people stocking up on such things as long life milk and tinned goods. Just wonder what other members views are on these things. Incidentally most of the British shops have ran out of gas masks!

That's good to know, Wornout!
I'm sorry if I overreacted but I'm afraid that racism towards asylum seekers is all too common and it makes me feel really angry. I too live in an area with a high immigrant population and have been astonished and disgusted by some of the views I've heard expressed by others in the neighbourhood. For example, some people don't take their kids to the wonderful local Toy Library because it is QUOTE "full of smelly muslims". There are also some stupid rumours going round that one of the local state primaries teaches exclusively in Bengali and doesn't accept white kids. Unfortunately, many people appear to genuinely believe this cr**.

My point is Scummymummy, that to support a country like Afganistan that has such a regime as the Taleban is totally against my principles. I am not racist either, but there was an incident in Glasgow about 2 months ago when an assylum seeker was stabbed, this was wrong. On hearing more info on the subject it turned out that over 65% of the people living in one of the tower blocks were assylum seekers, and the people in that area felt pushed aside.
In our area and we don't have anything like this going on because we are pretty much a rural area, I don't think we have much idea of what goes on. It is not assylumn seeker bashing, as wornout said, we are lucky in this country to have the freedom of speech.

But surely we are not supporting Afghanistan- we're at war with it. The people need aid because millions of innocent men, women and children will otherwise die. Afghanistan is not a democracy, the Taliban seized power by might and murder. They were not elected, although initially it seemed to some of the terrified and brutalised citizens that their brand of Islamic law was enforcing a degree of stability.
I heard an aid worker state yesterday that if America drops the amount of food it did on the first night of military strikes every night for six months the total amount of food dropped will be sufficient to feed the 7.5 million people facing the prospect of a winter without food for just one day.
I also heard that Mozambique is facing similar devastating floods to last year, but that because the water levels are rising slowly there are not the same dramatic news and photo opportunities ( no babies born in trees), so the worlds media is not interested.

If we're talking about asylum seekers, can we talk about ID cards?

Personally I feel the only justification for introducing these is to counteract the threat of terrorism. But I wonder, how effective will ID cards be? Terrorists seem to have had no problem getting false passports over the years.

I do not know how much ID cards will cost the government, but I'd guess it's a considerable amount. Would the money be better spent on other forms of defense, or on aid here or abroad?

Faith, the Prime Minister has said that Britain will support the Afghans.

Tigermoth, ID cards, I'm not sure what my point of view is on them, it is correct what you say about people being able to get hold of fake ID's. The has been a lot of speculation regarding Human Rights in this proposal by the government. i do think that ID cards will become legal in this country, as to how effective they will be I'm not sure.

How can some of you say we shouldn't be 'supporting' Afghanistan? The Taliban have seized control of this country and enforced some unbelievable rules against these people and now they are facing a winter where many of them will die from starvation. How can we NOT help/support these people?
I think the whole world has just gone crazy. I read in the Times this weekend that last year the UK doubled their normal arms sales, good year eh? Except a fifth of these sales went to, quote, 'dubious' countries and a third of this went directly to the Middle East. All legal. What the hell are we playing at? Is money more important than considering what we are ultimately giving a helping hand to?
Also, today I walked along the street (in London) where a homeless man was sat. An elderly man was walking just behind me and he shouted at the man 'get a f job'. Completely irrelevant to this thread really but I'm just wondering what the hell has happened to the world.

TO be fair Janus, as far as I can see, only contributor seems to be suggestin we shouldn't support Afghanistan. Faith, international humanitarian aid to Afghanistan will top US$600m this year. Intuitively that would look to atleast going a long way to feeding the 25m population.

Faith,
Firstly I was accussed of "asylum bashing"! Please note that this is NOT the same thing as illegal immigrants! And the fact that every week in my local paper the crime rate statistics are soring and when they mention the crimes (all be it some might say petty crimes) car dumping, car tax avoidance (does this mean no insurance too?), begging, muggings, stealing mobile phones, the police mention no names but they say it is by an illegal immigrants. Secondly I have had two seperate occassions when I have had a small group of eastern european looking women with virtually new born babies swaddled to them with toddlers in tow knock on my front door begging! For which I contacted the police immediately as I will not be confronted with this sort of thing on my own doorstep I feel that it is tantamount to child abuse. They do not only have these children, but older children too, which go to our local nursery & primary school, I am sure if they were the average asylum seeker they would be covered very well by the goverment and they would not need to beg!!!
I repeat I am not a racist. I truly feel for any person that is persecuted in the own country, but as it is stated in the geneva convention they can take political refuge in the first country that they come to in which they are not persecuted, so how comes drift loads are trying to gain entry to this country ILLEGALLY through the backs of lorrys or the eurotunnel?

Wornout
'Genuine'asylum seekers, far from being 'covered very well by the government' receive less than income support, and in many areas only in the form of vouchers. Not only is this humiliating, but it means they can only access certain shops, and have no cash available e.g. for bus fares. Many 'genuine asylum seekers' are professionally qualified, eg doctors, nurses, teachers. They are not allowed to work for the first six months that they are here. Meanwhile we are recruiting such staff overseas due to a shortage here.If schools believed that these children were here illegally not only would they be under no obligation to offer them a place, they would be expected to inform the relevant authorities. I think suggesting that increasing crime levels is the fault of these people sounds racist. I wonder what the levels of hate crime committed against these people (whether political or economic migrants) is in your area.
Croppy, you are right in that aid will help, but for some Afghans the fear is that it will be too late. 7M people are literally on the verge of starvation now, scavenging for insects etc. Once the first snow falls the more remote areas will be inaccessible.

Whatever the shortcomings of the UK system for dealing with asylum seekers, it is one of the most generous available of any country. It is typical of us Brits that we tend to be more charitable than other nations and yet still give ourselves a harder time than other nations who are considerably less generous!

Faith, May I suggest that you choose to reside in my borough, as far as I can tell these sort of comments come from people that do not live side by side. Having experienced first hand begging on my doorstep, chases through our local shopping centre twice now where asylum seekers have mugged people. please do not preach to me that I am being racist.
For heavens sake why is it everytime people try just to point out that these people are not all hard done by, some actually choose to come here even when their own country is no longer under threat just because it is easier then staying around to rebuild their country (lucky how grandparents did not have that attitude after the blitz). Can I also point out, that after my Dad left my Mum with 3 very young children to bring up on her own, she struggled to keep down a couple of part time jobs, but we did also receive vouchers and we did not feel demeaned by this just grateful that I could have a pair of shoes or that I could eat a free meal at school. Stop trying to be so politcally correct and just admit that we can not agree to support every illegal immigrant & because I am becoming alittle fed up with the label racist. If I was as racist as you make out I would not have stuck my neck out in the past to stop a black guy getting heckled by a couple of thugs nor would I have made the contributions to the disaster funds that have occured over the years!

Star, Arn't you a charmer, there seems to be a few of you out there can not tell the difference between a racist and someone who worries about my surroundings, I am not even going to bother any more with this posting because it is not so much a debate any more as an assult.

Come on Star - it's a discussion. You've got to have opposing views sometimes.

Wornout, you are not being racist, merely pointing out to many of us the situation that is in your area.
Star, canny on, read again what Wornout has said please, this is supossed to be an open discussion. Not what some people want to hear.

Star- I applaud your bravery. Faith pointed out brilliantly and reasonably why she disagreed with Wornout. Wornout obviously wasn't using the same terms of reference: i.e. she doesn't have a proper understanding of what racism is. There's no point in having a battle of wits with an unarmed person so all you can do is what Star did- make sure it's very clear that you utterly disagree. I don't know if Wornout's views are really her own or if she's just parroting those of her local right-wing rag, either way... they stink.

Message deleted

Im not racist but I do feel that we are stuck in a position where you cant talk about anybody that isnt British without being called a racist. My husband works with some muslims who are going around the office oppenly agreeing with what has happened in america. He cant say anything because they have freedom of speech, wonder what would happen if he was openly agreeing with anything that had happened to a muslim state, would he then be called racist. People are people whatever colour or religion.

Oh my God, I have just read Connie's "contribution" with my mouth open! I am horrifed with those comments and presume it will be deleted as hateful.

What is going on here? This it what happened in Germany in the 30's. Let's target a minority because it is easy, lazy thinking. My heart is still thumping after reading those coments.

Minx, I agree completely. It's quite shocking that anyone could hold such opinions. Do you think Connie is a "troll"- putting controversial comments onto message boards just to get a reaction? I did a search for her and she hasn't posted anything on Mumsnet before. Either way I too hope her vile post is deleted ASAP.

Joe- Where does your husband work? At the Afghanistan Embassy?

Im not a troll . I post here under a different name. I find it very sad tat you think I am not allowed to express my thoughts and fears here.

Im afraid for my children and I think we can all agree the treat of a nother attack is very real

We dont know where or when but what we do know is that it will be carried out by a muslim. So yes that does make me fear them. It makes me uncomforable sharing my space with them.

I think some of you are being very naive here whilst trying to be so very PC.

Im not a hateful person Im very loving and caring
But you have to relise that the majority of asylum seekers hate the west and will take any oppurtunity to destroy us now.

They are fist and foremost muslim.

For goodness sake dont you read the papers lots of muslims are coming out applauding the attacks in new york. And they live in London. It beggars belief.

Can you really say hand on heart that you would not feel even the slightest bit uneasy about boarding a plane if two muslim men sat next to you.

If you wouldnot then I think its time you looked at the situation for what it is and educated yourself more about the risks.

Because the bottom line is an awful lot of muslims in this country right now are ready and willing to die for there cause. Taking us with them.

Are you actually telling me you think this is not true. Because that would be terribly ignorant.

The pm has warned us all to be on the highest state of alert. And what ever way you dress it up it is not white or black people he is warning us against it is people of middle eastern appearence
acting suspicious that we are looking for

By the way Srummymummy I find it quite amazing that you find my views controversial. From the many many people I have discussed this with since sept11 I find my views to be the norm. Perhaps not the blow them offthe planet bit. (Although I still think it a good idea for all fanatics)

I think it is more controversial to be more concerned with being pc than with the security of our country in the present climate.

Connie ( aka Wornout?)
Like Scummymummy and Minx I am aghast at your comments. Although I uphold the right to freedom of expression I find your views abhorrent. I also wonder whether mumsnet can be held legally liable in any way? trying to point out your errors seems pointless, as clearly you have been unable to comprehend the recent political events.

Connie - why are you hiding behind another pseudonym since you are so righteous in your views?

Connie- I hope and believe that most people who use Mumsnet would find your views odious. Minx & I have already indicated that we find them so.

Your posts appear to be proof of the fact that racism is based on fear and ignorance.

Why are you posting under "Connie"? Are you embarrassed to use your usual nickname?