Gas Masks/Nuclear War!!

[Mima]

Have been reading with interest in the papers the last few days about the panic buying in both British and US shops for gas masks and I wondered if any Mumsnet members are "panicking" and buying such things. Also just heard on the news about people stocking up on such things as long life milk and tinned goods. Just wonder what other members views are on these things. Incidentally most of the British shops have ran out of gas masks!

Louisa - good site for heated discussions is the News Talk on Guardian Unlimited.

Blimey! what a start to Monday morning. Just scrolled down and read through this long and overheated discussion. Must get access to the internet at weekends - missed all the fun.

Prudence tells me not to post, but hey, you can't be prudent all the time - right, shiekmummy? I just feel that I can't post on any other topic till I've got this off my chest.

Actually I havn't much to add. I'd be stumbling around the dark, because I can't see how offensive the deleted comments were. There are lots of messages swimming around in my head, but here are the printable ones:

Sweetie - Thanks for your insight.

RobinW -Applaud your valliant efforts at heading off the stampede.

Scummymummy - I'm all for a lively discussion, I'll even change my views if I meet a reasoned argument, but when I next post a viewpoint that you disagree with (however justified that is) must I live in dread of insults and sarcasm? I take it that you weren't attempting the difficult task of persuading Wornout and Connie to come round to your way of thinking, or at least finding some common ground? Pity. It seems to me you have the the necessary wherewithall to take this on.

Right - I've said my piece. Now I can have a look on some other boards. Noticed there were very few messages from other mumsnetters today.

I have just come into work this morning, I only post from work as I do not have a home computer,
for all of you out there I am not Connie, I have been unable to see any of the deletions, and I have no further comments to make, but I did want to add that I am me and not someone else!?!

I would just like to say that I do not feel that I have any reason to be ashamed about anything that I've written on this thread. Indeed, I am proud of most of it. In my opinion Connie's first post was absolutely disgusting. I really found it very shocking and horrible. Read Minx's first message upon reading it- her heart was thumping, she was horrifed. I was too. Connie's subsequent postings are little better but they do not employ the same language or imagery as her first.
Believe it or not, I am quite shy sometimes and can find it hard to confront people when I believe what they say or do to be wrong. I can, like many other Mumsnetters out there apparently, stay away from strong argument because it feels too confrontational and too painful. I do not feel that this is always to my credit.
One of the reasons I love my partner so much is that he is willing to respond strongly both in person and online when he disagrees with people. I think he can be very brave, even though he is sometimes very insulting and uses strong words. He does not worry about being unpopular. (He is also very funny and sexy in my opinion but that is irrelevant.) I do think that his deleted Sheikmummy post was insulting to Connie- it was meant to be. However, it was written in the context of a reply to someone who had been vitriolically racist and had not responded at all to reasoned messages from the likes of Faith, Minx and, I hope, myself. For me, reading it and watching him write it took some of the tension out of a situation that I found very saddening.
I'm sorry, Tigermoth but I really didn't feel there was much common ground to find with Connie in this situation. I accept that things became heated but I feel that heatedness was an appropriate response in this instance. Would you really have wanted any people reading Mumsnet for the first time that night to see that a blatently racist post had gone unchallenged?
I am sorry that we (all) leapt to the wrong conclusion that Wornout was the person behind these posts. I apologise, Wornout.

I've just read through this thread and though I can't see what Connie said in her deleted post, I get the gist... and I think you're right in one sense Scummymummy, if I'd come across it unchallenged I might have really wondered about the people on this site. Also I can understand why it had to be deleted if it was as bad as people are infering. I just wonder though, whether it might not have been better to have deleted the whole thread, given it continues to cause such rancour and that it's hard to know if people are over-reacting if we can't see the message that caused the problem...

Just wanted to answer the questions by Minx. Yes I converted I believe Islam gives me answers to all the questions I have had about religion, God etc that I did not believe I was getting before. I am certainly not here to ram Islam down anyones throat, I have always felt religion is a personal choice. Though one thing I would ask is that people do not get religion and culture mixed up. Most of the horrible things that are inflicted on the muslim woman that you see in the press are either tied into culture or just carried out because the authorities are barbaric.

In answer to your second question Minx regarding a muslims womans witness being only half the value of a mans - this is true for ONLY financial transactions and it is to give extra protection to the woman because back in the 'old days' few woman took part in business (although they have always been allowed to)but most preferred to stay at home. Therefore if a woman was called to witness a financial transaction then another woman would also have to be a witness so if they were ever to provide evidence they wold be able to support each other as it would have been unlikely at that time that either would have had a great deal of experience with fin trasactions. This was actually a lot more liberal than old Jewish law and the bible.

My final thought on this subject is try not to worry too much (I don't have any insider knowledge I promise but I would be sure to post it a mumsnet if I do!!)but the more you worry about what could happen the less attention you are paying on the roads and you are more likely to be killed on them than by anything else!

Believe me (or not), we weren't over-reacting. Sorry to keep parroting Scummymummy - we're not the same person, honest - but I'm proud we spoke out.

All that evil needs to flourish is for good men to do nothing - I can't remember the precise quote but you know the one I mean.

Wornout - My apologies for thinking you might be Connie.

Wornout - I apologise for thinking that you might be Connie.

whoops, sorry, I thought that I'd deleted the first post by mistake.

Robbie, I think this thread should stand as it is and not have the whole lot deleted. I know it may not make sense to those who have just tried to read it now but for those of us who were there (or have an interest in this) I think it needed to be discussed further as the point at which Justine intervened things had become too heated and so it needed to be reviewed in the cold light of day to clarify everything. Also, had it been deleted Wornout wouldn't have been able to say she wasn't Connie and we've had a really interesting post from Cher too (yet another viewpoint). I'm sorry you are unable to judge for yourself if it were as bad as we make out, but I do think it was right to be pulled as the remarks from connie were very offensive, rest assured.

Well whoever "Sheikmummy" is, I certainly found the comments in response to Joe's fears for her husband (the one about "he must work for Burger King") offensive and stupid.

message withdrawn

Lizzer, just seen your posting on the come in you're missed board, and thought I should reply here to your post. I can't speak for Star, nor would I want to. I am actually sick and tired of 'serious' debate on this subject and would like to relax amongst friends, and have decided that I don't need the aggro and will sit this one out. Thank you for asking, and yes I was for real the last time I looked.

Robinw, thanks, I am very much a person who thinks what will be will be and I know we cant stop living our lives so I just ask for people (see the psycic (sp) thread to understand that bit) to look out for dh and I make sure I tell him I love him at ever opportunity.

I did clean out my cupboards, nothing interesting or tasty but a worthwhile job done.

Kia, no you got me all wrong! I left that message because I thought that you both were leaving the board entirely not just this thread. I was wondering why as I thought you didn't have to read this if you didn't want to and that there have been dozens of threads I have not been interested in / can't be bothered to get into (even this one until I was here on Friday night) and I'm sure most people are the same. I was just interested to know why, which you've answered in your last post. Don't be mad with me (please ), I didn't realise I was being so intrusive, it just seemed a really extreme reaction as there are still loads of 'fun' threads around.

I'm not disinterested, uninvolved or unmoved by what has happened and given the subject, I sat for ages trying to get my post right so as not to offend anyone - and still managed it, sorry! I'm from the planet bubble and come in peace. In fact, I'm going there now!

Can't we just give it a rest now Star?

Bimey, this is all a bit heavy isn't it?

Can we not just let bygones be bygones and accept that everyone has different opinions without getting all worked up about it? There will always be racists, whether that is religious hatred, colour hatred or gender hatred, insulting them will only bring yourselves down to their level and make them worse.

You know, if the terrorists wanted us to turn against each other, they're doing a bloody good job of it! Now is the time we should be rallying round to each other as we all have families and all want to protect them no matter what.

Let's move the discussion on a bit shall we? There is now a case of a 7 month old having Anthrax and Liverpool sorting office has been evacuated as a white powder was found in one of the envelopes. Are we all getting a bit too panicky and laying the way open for hoaxers? And how would you know if you, or someone you knew, had Anthrax?

If Anthrax is a real threat here as in the states perhaps we should be issued with small cards to regonise the symptons? I have a similar card for menengistis. It was in the papers that we have good stock piles of the antibiotics needed, but if we do not know the signs how can we be treated?

Personally I think that the experience of anthrax so far suggests that it is actually very difficult to infect people in large numbers which perhaps is some (small) consolation.

Did you all go out and buy gasmasks and antibiotics after the gulf war when it was proved that Iraq tested nerve gas on the marsh arabs, no.

Did we all stop flying after Lockerbie, no.

Been avoiding Irish people because of the IRA?

Been avoiding Greece because that Brit Army officer got assassinated?

IMHO this thread is over heating badly and driving people away just when we should be supporting as many women as we can.

sorry didn't realise you had all moved on without me.