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Little Italy 24

995 replies

BananaGio · 25/02/2011 11:52

Ciao tutte!

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Rosa · 08/11/2011 13:47

No none of us 'regulars' are from San Remo - it is terrible over there I hope your friend is ok. I am the other side of the country and the rain seems to have stopped now.....Its been very hard.
Gio / Franca - I just sit open mouthed waiting for the next idiotic thing he will come up with. The thing is is there anyone able and competent enough to take it all on?

Amapoleon · 08/11/2011 13:57

Thanks, aah that's a pity, I thought I might be able to find someone to cheer her up. Thanks again. Smile

Francagoestohollywood · 08/11/2011 14:13

Hello Amapoleon, sorry to hear your friend is having a hard time, it is so difficult to settle in a new country! Unfortunately none of us live in that area, but would your friend like to come on here, if she wants a moan/needs advice etc? Smile

Boh, I think we do have competent people, but they might not be up to take on this mess Grin. I just hope they won't make Angelino Alfano capo del governo, he doesn't look particularly smart (or even competent!)

Rosa · 08/11/2011 19:54

MA va o no ????? Have I understood properly or is it another excuse ? He will go when the legge di stabilita goes through...... When will that be ?
Now it will be interesting to see if the borse go up or down with this news
Thing is its not the Italians that have big debts etc like many other places in Europe vero its the government? Or have I just got the wrong end of the stick. I am so fed up of reading biased and non factual stuff in the Uk papers I am trying to get my head round it a bit here. DH is very blah blah load of bulls*it ( he hates him) but I can't get much more out of him !!!!

Francagoestohollywood · 08/11/2011 20:22

Hopefully he'll go... the bad thing is that imho his legge di stabilità is crap Grin

Sputnik · 08/11/2011 20:54

Can we open the champagne yet?

BananaGio · 08/11/2011 21:14

anyone watching ballaro? was watching the bit at g20 when noone was talking to him in the break through my fingers. cringeworthy!

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Francagoestohollywood · 08/11/2011 22:00

I am not opening my champagne as yet... too scared!

Actually, no, I am not watching Ballaro', I've just finished to re watch ep 1 series 2 of Bodies (Max Beesley emoticon) Grin

BananaGio · 10/11/2011 09:30

e mo?? what a bel casino. talk now emerging of 2 different euro currencies in the future I see. Yesterday La Russa (sick in mouth emoticon) and la Bindi battling it out so business as usual - had to switch channels as am finding myself reduced to simplistic yelling at TV FFS shut up for once, stop appearing on every TV programme going and just sort it out!
On the plus side I made a fantastic chocolate cake affair if I do say so myself for FIL's birthday last night Smile

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minervaitalica · 10/11/2011 11:27

Rosa, you are right. The problem is not private debt, it's public Debt.
This is a classic "liquidity crisis": the Italian goverment has not got enough money to pay the interest to whoever holds Italian government bonds (by buying a bond, like a BOT, you "lend" money to the government in exchange for repayment and interest). This situation in turn affects the Italian banks which hold a huuuuuuge amount of government bonds: because the market believes the government bonds are worthless, this means that the banks are also believed to hold worthless assets. In turn, lack of confidence in Italian banks may generate a bank run (Northern rock anyone?) and/or the incapacity of Italian banks to borrow money from others, which is necessary to their business. Banks may therefore go bust. Un "bel casino" is a good summary Grin .

Hence, we are in the hands of Mr Draghi, Ms Merkel and Mr Sarkozy, which have no choice but to help us.

minervaitalica · 10/11/2011 11:40

Sorry - I did not mean to write a lesson or to be patronising... I am just tired of the guff that I am hearing on the TV, even by so called experts, when the situation is rather simple. It's the solution that is complicated.

SuiGeneris · 10/11/2011 11:50

Hi everybody- long time no see because toddler+ increased hours at work+new pregnancy=no free time. Only on MN now because I'm stuck in bed with scarlet fever.

Minerva: do you think it is already a liquidity crisis? I think/hope it is a confidence crisis which could be sorted if Mr b left quickly (I.e. Today) and a technical government installed asap. But a longer-term resignation or elections would tip us straight into a liquidity crisis. Do you think I am too optimistic?

Francagoestohollywood · 10/11/2011 12:59

Congratulations SG Grin, wonderful news! (though sorry to hear you're stuck in bed with scarlet fever!)

Like SG, I am trying not to be too pessimistic. I think that the other problem is that Italy has had a very slow, if not inexistent growth in the last 10 yrs, therefore less confidence from the evil "mercati".

He has to go. NOW (and, I'd like to add, he should go with all his court of nani e ballerine, like they used to say about Craxi and his allies). I mean I so would love not to see LaRussa or Scajola etc ever again... Dream on.

BananaGio · 10/11/2011 13:21

congratulations SG Smile-when are you due? hope you improve soon with the fever.
def agree- has to go immediately, disappear, take advantage of the Ryanair offer - whatever! stop hanging around trying to buy more people off so he can stay!
Surely it cant get as bad as Greece because despite the crappy non growth the fact that the economy is large and the personal debt is low must have an effect? Or am I being over simplistic? Not v hot on economics!

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Francagoestohollywood · 10/11/2011 13:39

Oh yes, off he goes on that Ryan Air jet...

minervaitalica · 10/11/2011 13:39

Congratulations SG!!!!! Scarlet fever though, oh joy...

It is a liquidity crisis in the sense that Italian banks have been struggling to raise funds on the interbank market since June at least, and it's getting worse. So I would say a bank credit crunch is already under way, and it's been made worse by the deteriorating government situation, and some more technical changes that took place in the bond clearing institution at the weekend.

Unlike Greece though:

  • Italy is not actually insolvent, it's largely experiencing a temporary crisis. Greece was technically in default a while ago;
  • Italy has a more developed and differentiated economy than Greece or Spain. If on one side that means that the recovery may be easier, it also means that the risk is much higehr: if we defaulted, the effect of that would be worldwide (and Mr Obama knows it very well - it's not surprising he commented on our position last night) and could break the euro.
  • Italian govt has got £££ of assets to sell: ALitalia, trenitalia, Water, POmpei. Take your pick.

The fact that personal debt is low adds a "cushion effect", i.e. if taxes had to rise to curb the deficit, then Italian people would have money to rely on to see them though the crisis. But unless you are planning to hand over the money to the government, it does not really affect directly the public position.

Francagoestohollywood · 10/11/2011 13:57

Personal debt is growing though, there is a different new attitude towards debt nowadays, also because salaries have now less potere d'acquisto than previous generations (take my parents for instance never ever wanted and needed to take a mortgage).

I think it is time to do a patrimoniale on large incomes.

Sorry, I am too lazy to write in english about these matters, it is already rather confusing in Italian!

minervaitalica · 10/11/2011 16:52

That's true Franca - but mortgages are secured anyway - other personal debt like Credit cards are still minimal comparing to say the UK.

The problem with any kind of tax based on incomes in Italy is that the yield is 50% than it would be (in relative terms) in countries like the UK, due to high tax evasion, making it very inefficient and (paradoxically!) more likely to widen further the gap between the rich and the middle class (let alone the poor!). I think the next few years could be quite painful for a lot of people...

SuiGeneris · 10/11/2011 17:24

Thank you everyone! Due the last week of April. And might be that your wishes worked: I feel a lot better than this morning, so have actually been up for the last 2/3 hours. Handy as it is my father's birthday and we are flying tomorrow. And no, we are not putting anybody on the plane at risk: have been on antibiotics for days, so we are now "sterile" and no longer infectious...

Francagoestohollywood · 10/11/2011 18:06

Glad to hear you are feeling better SG, have a lovely trip and time in good old Italy (well old Italy rather than good...)

Minerva, yes, I agree that it'd be complicated (inefficient even) due to tax evasion (I think many larger incomes aren't even on the radar), I still believe they should at least give it a try.

Rosa · 11/11/2011 13:17

Thanks for the explanations I had understood pretty well then. ON Rai 1 this morning before the news there were 3 chaps saying buy Italian BOTs so help the treasury.... I cannot repeat what Dh said ! MInd you he his still hanging around - Maybe so he can have a nice leaving party ( on the tax payer of course!). Its San Martino today so we have been out with the school singing songs and getting lots of sweets. DD1 was supposed to be going in a gondola this pm but its a bit windy and the temps have dropped!
Sg great news and have a nice break !

Francagoestohollywood · 11/11/2011 13:47

Ciao Rosa, how did the birthday go?

Oh your San Martino day sounds lovely Smile

BananaGio · 12/11/2011 18:53

prosecco nicely chilled, sparklers ready for ds to join in the celebrations. Now hurry up and do one Berlusca, we've waited long enough!

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Francagoestohollywood · 12/11/2011 22:16

yes, yes, yes!!!

BananaGio · 12/11/2011 22:39

finalmenteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!! dont care what Monday will bring- today is a good day in Italy!!

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