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Original poster

Class

359 replies

Boe · 07/08/2003 17:49

Just wondered what made people a certain class - I was described as middle class the other day and not sure if I agree.

There are a few mentions n Northerners thread about her parents coming to stay and I can not for the life of me figure out what makes one middle class or working class - I go to work so IMO I am working class - Is this right????

OP posts:
doormat · 08/08/2003 11:56

Teletubby doesnt everyone want to better themselves.

Teletubby · 08/08/2003 11:59

I'm not saying that if you don't work hard you're in the gutter i'm simply saying that at the time i wasn't happy with what i was able to achieve and wanted to better myself (not in terms of class but in terms of self satisfaction) I did'nt want to have to worry about money etc and felt that i had the ability to change that. I certainly don't look down on people who have less than myself, to be honest i don't even notice but i do notice that others seem to comment on what i have that they don't almost as if i should feel guilty!

Northerner · 08/08/2003 12:02

Tellytubby - lots of people work hard all of their lives just to meet a certain standard of living. Many people live hand to mouth each pay day and therefore do not have the opportunity to 'improve their lot'

I, like you have improved my standard of living through lots of hard work and determination. But it was damn good luck I was born with these qualities, and that my opportunities came along at the right time.

doormat · 08/08/2003 12:04

Sorry teletubby but it seems to me that you do look down on people re: your statement about the council.

Good on you for bettering yourself but you are not the first nor the last to do this. As far as I'm concerned everyone wants to better themselves.It is a human trait.

ScummyMummy · 08/08/2003 12:05

Indicators that you are probably middle class, IMO:
*you or either of your parents have a degree.
*you or either of your parents read and enjoyed all of Noel Streatfield's books as a child.

Northerner · 08/08/2003 12:06

Who is Noel Streatfield?

Tinker · 08/08/2003 12:06

"I certainly don't look down on people who have less than myself, to be honest i don't even notice". So why refer to them as 'council' then? Why refer to them at all in a derogatory way?

Original poster
Boe · 08/08/2003 12:06

Definately not MC then - who is Noel Streatfield??

OP posts:
Teletubby · 08/08/2003 12:07

I appreciate that lots of people live hand to mouth etc but there are so many organisations offering courses etc to those in these sorts of situations at very reasonable, if not free rates. I wouldn't say that i was very academic but at the same time decided on what i wanted to do and perserved with it. I'm a firm believer that anyone is capable of achieving what they want to do if they really believe in it and themselves and any obstacles that get in the way can be overcome, not always easily but if you really have a dream then you'll find a way.

doormat · 08/08/2003 12:11

What does that make me scummymummy both parents have degrees but I live on a council estate.

Or is that a tricky one!!!!hmm

I think that makes me a middle class scrounger.

Teletubby · 08/08/2003 12:11

My comment about 'council' was not about people who live in council estates or anything like that, it was merely a reference to those who skulk around choosing to be jobless (not those who are jobless for a reason) living off of the state and laughing about it. I don't look down on people atall but do get fed up with people who choose to be jobless, live off of the state and have a wild time whilst using up our taxes that would be better spent on the NHS etc and helping those that really need help. It was clearly a term and by no means a reference.

doormat · 08/08/2003 12:14

What would you call the royal family then teletubby

They are upper class, jobless and live off the state through your taxes.

doormat · 08/08/2003 12:16

and have a wild time laughing????

Tinker · 08/08/2003 12:16

Blimey, think I'd choose to be jobless if I could have a 'wild time' living off the state

I'm a resolute middle-class under-achiever. Graduate teacher mother, probation officer father who left school at 14 (no further education) and yet I live in a similar house to my grandparents -a miner and a docker.

Northerner · 08/08/2003 12:17

OK Tellytubby. You go on a 'free' course that teaches you how to use the internet, or how to write a CV, then what? Do you suddenly get lots of job offers - I think not. So you can move to a different area, but if you live in a council house this is very difficult.

Yes, we all want to better ourselves and our situation, and for some people this is possible. But you must remember that for some people 'bettering themselves' is a highly paid job, wonderful big house and foreign holidays whilst for others it is simply decorating the front room. Some people have smaller expectations, and whilst you may not have been happy with your lot, some people are. And this we must respect.

Teletubby · 08/08/2003 12:17

Can i just ask why the issue is always with the classes above the working class looking down? I get comments from others because i drive a Mercedes which seems to be acceptable yet if i commented on somebody in a beaten up old car i would then be accused of being a snob and looking down on people! Why is it acceptable for people to verbally attack me for what i have? Everyone is only too aware that it is not acceptable to verbally attack those who have less than you yet it doesn't seem to work the other way.

ScummyMummy · 08/08/2003 12:18

Noel Streatfield is children's writer of Ballet Shoes, Painted Garden, White Boots, Mrs Wintle's(?) Wonders and more fame. I think you could probably be middle class and not have read them but they may be an indicator that you are if you have...

Another couple:
You or either of your parents listen(ed) to the Archers

You or either of your parents have ever sprouted mung beans and, crucially, eaten the resultant crop.
(IME working class and upper class folk are rarely stupid enough to eat mung beans)

Northerner · 08/08/2003 12:19

Re: The Royal family - is Buckingham Palace a council house?

Tinker · 08/08/2003 12:21

I'm failing all your tests Scummy

Teletubby · 08/08/2003 12:21

I think it's great when people are happy with there lot and nobody should feel that they should have to do or be something better if they are happy - certainly not for the sake of how they are viewed by others. The majority of people who live off the state do not wish to be doing so in which case 'no' they are not having a wild time, they are having a tough time, been there, but there are some who do choose to simply dodge working and collect the money.

Northerner · 08/08/2003 12:22

Tellytubby - you are describing inverted snobbery. Which unfortunatley also exists. I guess it's human nature to sometimes resent what other people may have.

prufrock · 08/08/2003 12:23

CAM, not classless but classy m'dear.
Scummy I love Noel Streatfield, but no degrees in my family (Only because I was far far too intelligent at 18 to go to university and be taught by stupid adults ) and of my two best friends one has a degree, but if I had to I would class her as working (limited ambition, lack of aeshthetic appreciation) and the other most definately does not have a degree and thinking about it doesn't have a hell of a lot of ambition, but is a 4th cousin of the Queen Mother and was a deb, so most definately upper in my eyes. So I guess that makes me middle. Actally I guess I don't give a damn. (Maybe that's what makes you middle)

ScummyMummy · 08/08/2003 12:26

Doormat- by my reckoning you are a middle class person who lives in a council flat. As am I! (Well, it's housing assoc. actually but would be council if my partner hadn't been transferred from council to housing assoc.) Long live downward mobility, say I. And I like your wild laughter, btw.

Teletubby · 08/08/2003 12:26

I made no reference to council houses and i did not use the word 'council' to reflect peoples housing or whether or not they were council tennants it was merely a word used to refer to those who choose to bum around living off of the state out of choice. A variety of people live on council estates, i have friends that do and there's nothing wrong with that, like you say, the Royal Family live in a house run by peoples taxes.

doormat · 08/08/2003 12:29

Scummy I live in a 4 bedroomed semi-detached house with private gardens and driveway to park my crappy ford fiesta with a pleasant view of the local tip