Tea Room the Eleventh

[amberlight]

Goodness, we seem to have run out of space on the other one!
I shall assume that we are still in the same premises as for Tea Room Ten for the moment until wiser people tell me otherwise!!

Oh lovely. Tea is another thing that I wish I could drink in RL. Slice of hand-made-by-old-lady date and walnut loaf to go with it?

I really like some aspects of home schooling and don't like others. I have met some home-schooled children who lack a lot of social graces and consideration for others. And I do think that school has things going for it - school plays, music lessons, French lessons (with me of course!), etc.

I don't know.

Aged Parent says that Long Ago, when RS herself was that age, school started at 5 with no nursery beforehand, just a weekly playgroup, and I was perfectly happy to start school, did very well and even got a degree. Something the present government would think completely impossible, as I should have been educationally disadvantaged for life.

Presumably Milk is happy in the maternelle?

x post.

MadBad, I totally agree that it is me, not Wriggle who must decide. I was weak this morning, partly because she was ill yesterday and I had half expected her to be ill again and not go. And partly the reason I don't want her to go is that I miss the fun things we do together. I do think she should go to nursery at least 2x a week (more than 3 days not possible because of my work) for a short time ie two hours, just to get used to the fact that life is possible away from Maman and Papa.

Part of the trouble is that I think (if I were being totally honest) that I think that the other mums won't be friends with me and Wriggle if she doesn't do the same as their children.

Incidentally, I totally believe that there is no point in bright children learning to read before school. They just tend to be bored when they do get to school. They would be much better getting some wider life experience so that they have something interesting to read and write about.

Long and rambling posts due to Dentist Avoidance.

I think I agree with MadBad - it does come down to going consistently or just leaving it for now. No parents will notice if you go into reception not having been to nursery/preschool - after all there will be children going in from lots of settings.

I don't believe in teaching preschoolers to read formally, but some cannot be stopped from wanting desperatly to read. DS is insistent on being told how to read things, and requires every sign and label to be read and sounded out. So I have no choice, and it's not substituting for life experience, just something we do as part of everyday life.

I'm at a conference - the talks this morning are toooo boring to cope with, so am sat at my little exhibition stand clearing out emails

..... Long Ago, when RS herself was that age, school started at 5 with no nursery beforehand, just a weekly playgroup, and I was perfectly happy to start school, did very well and even got a degree....

Yes! Long ago, when dinosaurs roamed the earth and I started school, I did so with the benefit only of a term or so of morning sessions at pre-school (I'm not sure for how many days a week, I must ask my own Aged Parent).

My reservation about HE is that whole social aspect. I once met a HEer at a party who was very vociferous that her children had lots of friends, but that isn't quite what concerns me. What MadBadBaby gets at school is learning how to rub along with a whole schoolful of children from a very wide diversity of backgrounds (we are in the smoke) who she may not like and who may not like her. I don't see how HE can provide that, although it can provide lots of other things.

Made-by-old-lady cake is often the best, I think. This is scrummy.

Ooops. Cross-posts.

I agree with Cmot about some children being very curious about reading and keen to read what they see around them. MBB was very keen on sounding-out and recognising letters from her name etc and was very brand-aware before she started school because she recognised Kelloggs, Tesco etc etc . When she asked what things said of course I told her - I wouldn't and couldn't have said "no that's private knowledge that you can only have when you get to school". But, even so, I am sceptical about (say) those threads in education where people protest that they had to sit their child down with the Oxford Reading Scheme because that was what they wanted. Was that really the child's free and spontaneous choice? Did there just happen to be some school-type reading books lying around which the child spontaneously picked up? In nine out of ten cases I doubt it.

I think that, as you are doing Cmot, there are other ways of encouraging a child's interest in reading without formal teaching. In my view, Racing is (as ever in matters pedagogical) right in suggesting that it's better to introduce a child to a range of life experiences which will enhance their enjoyment of reading and learning in general.

Thoughts about nursery panic - would it help if she knew exactly what the nursery was going to do that day, that she knew there was a quiet corner to go to if she just wanted to think and watch for a bit, and that you gave her a visual timer so she can see when it's time to go? A countdown timer that shows it visually is a great thing. Less of a shock when it turns out to be 'the moment'. Also can the nursery help her time how long she will be there so she knows it's not endless?
Just thinking about how I used to cope, not that I'm saying your own child is anything like me, but it nearlyalways worked for the toddlers etc I've cared for over the years....
Pot of soup du jour and some splendid rolls for those needing some.

RS, I completely agree with MadBad (in fact, MadBad, if I had questions regarding anything educational you'd be one of the first persons I'd ask because any of your advice I've read is so very sound and emotionally appealing) - I don't think you've done at all a terrible thing keeping Wriggle home today. If Jackbaby pleaded with me to stay home with me there is no way I could refuse. And I really don't see that she will be harmed by starting school without having gone to nursery.

Question - is "reception" what you call the first year of school in the U.K. ?

I see I missed a few posts in between. Agree w/ CMOT too.

Yes, reception is the (voluntary but almost universally attended) first year at school which starts when they are four years old.

Oh, ok, then it's different from here - what we call "first grade" is not voluntary and starts at 5 or 6 depending on what time of year the child is born.

Soup du jour? Marvellous! I love jours. They are my favourite vegetable. These rolls are lovely, splendid in fact. Now that Mistle isn't here, her ds is no longer supplying us with lewd rolls.

Amber - I have just heard of a cinema which offers autism-friendly screenings (lights left on at a low level, sound turned down and nobody minds if you move about during the screening). Sounds utterly fab to me. Does this happen across the country?

Jacksmama - Here, school (reception or Year R) starts in September and will be for anyone born from 1 September - 31 August, so some will be five years old and some will be hardly more than 4. In some areas, the youngest start in January but in others, everyone starts in September (and there are moves to make that the standard practice). You're not legally obliged to have your child in school, though, until the term after they turn 5 so you can skip YR, but if you do your child goes straight into Year 1, having missed out not only on the formal teaching (which is fairly minimal in YR) but on the socialising and making friends. It's a hard call to make.

I'm always very free with my opinions on education, schools or anything else , but Racing is the one with teaching experience who can actually argue from a position of knowledge and authority.

That's the HUGE problem, JM - I do not want Wriggle in school at 4.

Shame. I miss the lewd rolls (though I'm not commenting on the lewd rolling that we've witnessed between Mellors and one or two of our guests - tsk )

Yup, there's autism friendly screenings aplenty in some Showcase cinemas, for example. Very good plan indeed. Lots more service providers are understanding more and more about how to get extra money from providing good services for the million individuals with an ASC. It's a big market.

Racing I do not think you did a bad thing at all re Wriggle, but agree that you want to try and avoid "do we or don't we go to nursery" as being the point of the day when Wriggle goes head to head with you on decision making

I think the choice thing is a good idea, but if it's only 2 times a week, perhaps a combination of Amber's clock/ visual thing and a weekly chart would be good?

DaisyBoy Lives by the Cooker Timer - we set it when he plays before nursery so he knows it is going to be time. We also talk about what we are going to do later. He was wobbly the first 3 weeks - at drop off time - but it was easier because I was confident that when he was there he was happy and what they were doing together he (and I) Likes nad approved of. I wouldn't have been keen if that was not hte case, and that I think, is part of your problem?

I am currently also struggling with the school at 4 or 5 issue - exactly as MadBad says, Reception which is not required but is the time the school gives social help or more play and bang, it's year 1

For what it's worth I never did anything much before school at 4 and I managed to limp through several qualifications....

It's the social thing (and team games and choirs etc) that puts me off HE ...

The other thing to mention for those for whom starting school at 4 or 5 is moot ....

I'm not sure (despite my long involvement in school governance ) whether a state primary school which offers a child a place for Reception will hold it open if entry is deferred until Year 1. I suspect that many wouldn't, as after capitation day (when the government does a head count at the school) they will lose money for every empty place and (I suspect again) the place counts as empty if the child isn't actually attending. It's something you would need to check and factor in. This isn't an issue, as far as I know, in the private sector where you can join at any stage if there's a place.

Daisy - I expect in areas where there is a lot of HE there will be HE choirs and HE rugger etc, but I would still worry about the only being with small groups of like-minded people and not with 30 diverse sorts thing.

Am feeling slightly overwhelmed at the moment, a result of three very hectic and sociable days. Can I sit in a corner and whimper quietly?

Sorry, lots of things have happened on here, to lots of people, and I am reading it all, just not up to contributing that much .

Yes, MadBad, I have some doubts about HE, but hadn't thought of the advantages of mixing with unpleasant children! It has to be done, though. I have been more worried in case Wriggle turns out to be one of them.

Mary, do sit in the corner. Could I silently and sympathetically, without indulging in unwanted conversation, push a cup of tea your way? Or possible even a G&T?

I'm also just popping in to say hi before I give gymgirlie her dinner, she has been off sick today but think she'll be OK for tomorrow. I have a million and one things to do tonight so am going to be disciplined and steer clear of the laptop until I have done all my jobs. Sending everyone a big bottle of Bolly to enjoy in my absence.

Racing - First of all, I am quite sure that Wriggle will be delightful. She is now, very obviously, and she will continue to be so in future. I wasn't trying to suggest that the benefit of school was mixing with unpleasant children, more that it was about mixing with children who aren't like you. I would guess (although would like to hear differently) that HE families are fairly homogenous, just because it takes a certain sort of personality, outlook on life and determination to buck the trend by taking one's child out of (or never putting them in) the school system.

Thank you. People are welcome to join me in the peace and quiet, am not up to small or any other size of talk, but am quite happy to sit and drink bolly and eat Belgian chocolates!

RS -

Milk's Maternalle has a very nostalgic feel about it. It smells like school when I was a little girl.

The children wear smocks and the staff coo at them and say things like "You are such a little flea my darling" (which is a nice thing to say in French).

They seem to spend a lot of time wonder around the big Parisian park the school is in all in a line holding a long ribbon with adults at either end chatting about the season developing and stopping now and then to free play or collect leaves or conkers.

The children are all completely charming and come from a great variety of backgrounds which I find simply wonderful.

They do lots of singing in French and English. The children free play inside and paint and draw and Milk absolutely loves it.

She is completely in love with the staff and I feel they really 'get' Milk which puts me a ease!

I think I might be feeling a little more wobbly if she were in a straight French school rather than her bilingual one. Her class has 13 children and at least one assistant (they swap around depending on activities) and Milk only attends in the afternoon.... where class sizes are 30 with one assistant in French schools and if you desire they can attend all day (my friend's little boy is three and goes to school from 8.30 - 4.30 eeeeeeeeek)!!!

When Milk started nursery (she used to go two afternoons a week) we had a horribly wobbly starting week and I simply didn't know what to do with myself - luckily a work friend of mine who had five children was all ears and said nice things like "It will be ok... I promise" - and guess what - it was!!!

I think Wiggle's (and your) wobbles are completely normal for first days appart. RS - Just take it steady do what feels right over the next few weeks and be gentle on you - you really deserve it!

• sorry I hadn't realised how long my post had got!!!!! I kept adding more between preparing the dinner!!!!

RS- what does happen to wiggle on your work days? is she in childcare or with family? If in childcare then IMHO school nursery class may be one more activity she could live with out.
My own experience with boy is that he copes OK with 2 full school days at preschool ( the days I work) BUT is VERY tired and I have to make sure he has plenty of chilled time at home or out and about with me on the other days. He refers to preschool as being his "work".

Funny that someone should question " who on earth has reading scheme books at home" well actually I do, some at least, all either borrowed or bought 2nd hand. For while they were just the right length bedtime story for boy, not much text & clear pictures which tell a lot of the story so we could expand them or shorten them to suit. Reading corner grade one " where are my shoes" is a fab funny little book.

Mary , are there any of those choc left, may I join in in munching heaven. Ohhh great coffee creams, my favourites.

Parents of soon-to-be school starters - have you seen this stuff from DCSF about flexibility on starting school?