Is this my sons fault or nursery’s fault?

[Mummymummymummyy]

I just had an email from my 4years old pre school saying there was an incident today and I need to sign the form when he next comes in- as they didn’t mention at pick up. The incident is that he opened the fire door which leads to the nursery main door which opens onto a busy road. The tone of the email is all about how bad it is my son did this and how shocked they all were. It says they they had a talk with him about safety and how bad it is to open the door, and can I also talk to him. I’m glad they took it seriously and mentioned it, but I’m kind of annoyed and wondering if I should be. Surely the issue is that a nursery isn’t properly child proof, if a door can be opened by a child. It’s not like I have taught him to open doors and although of course I will talk to him about it- surely they themselves need to address this. a precious nursery he went to had buttons up high to press to open doors, and buzzers etc.

am I unreasonable to be annoyed?

The fire door didn’t open onto a road, it opened into a lobby with an external door.

Hmm, maybe your son kept wandering because he was always told it wasn't his fault ...

If the nursery staff firmly but kindly explained the rules and the importance of respecting those rules, then it's perfectly ok if the child felt a bit guilty. Hopefully it'll be a learning moment and they won't do it again then.

if the fire alarm goes off, the locked (code operated fire door) become unlocked

Fire doors are a tricky balance - they do need to be opened from the inside in case of emergency and you can't do anything to childproof that would also potentially trap someone who is disabled, has limited visibility from smoke and can't read instructions or find a separate button, or a child who has become separated from their adult in the emergency conditions.

One good approach that schools often use is to have fire exits open to fenced areas with gates so that children can escape the building in emergency but can't go far enough to access a road on their own.

Not enough staff, not enough measures in place - this is probably due to cost-cutting. Awful. Not your fault.

I think there are two separate issues here.

1. Should your son follow the rules - yes
2. Should the nursery rely on 4 year olds following the rules - no.

My dtds started school 2 days after turning 4… there was no way a dc could get out the school site. If they opened a fire door they’d be safe within the school grounds so not really comparable.

I'd want to understand at what point they teach dc not to touch that door and how they explain it - has dc actually recently been told not to touch it or is it just assumed they wouldn’t? I wouldn’t tell dc off just chat about what a fire door is and when it’s okay to use.

Yep - succinctly put.

The fire door in this situation didn’t lead to the street - it leads to a corridor containing the nursery main door, which in turn is probably within a gated complex.
Presumably there were a lot of obstacles to scale before the kid ended up outside on a main road.

My son left reception once - he managed to get out of what they thought was a secure gate and was found on the pavement outside (he was ringing the buzzer to get back in!). The school was nothing but apologetic and took the entire responsibility (and changed the gate), did not blame my child at all. Your nursery should do the same-- after all, if he could open a fire door because of poor supervision, then so could any of the others. It really is their fault.

Just how many parents expect to visit their DDs school or nursery and point out the fire doors and any other doors which must not be opened?
Surely this is something the nursery or school is responsible for.
Can a four year old readily identify a fire doors and any?
Rules and procedures are within the domain of the staff not the parents who will teach their children about other areas such as home and public places.

Sure. But there's no evidence that 2) is in any way the case. There was still another main door to get through before the outside. I'm assuming if it had been left unlocked the op would have said. And in fact the child didn't even have the opportunity to go though the first fire door at all, the staff caught him in the act of opening it and reacted straight away.

Maybe read the OP again. It doesn't open onto a busy road.

Of course that's not the expectation and I don't think anyone here is saying that. The parents' job is to be actively teaching their children to follow the instructions of the adults responsible for their safety, including school staff.

Why would you think the school hasn't told the child not to open doors, or that the child wasn't being actively told "Liam, STOP. Do not open that door" and did it anyways?

This is the nurseries fault and they have breached their safeguarding procedures by not supervising your child.

Similar has happened in a nursery where
somewhere I know works. They are in a lot of trouble with Ofsted. I would tell them you will be reporting the incident to Ofsted and include the email they have sent.

Is there a back story OP? I'm just wondering if this is the first time that something like this has happened; ie. does you child have a history (at nursery or at home) of similar issues? Are there other issues that have come to light and at nursery and at home? If this is out of the blue and your child normally obeys rules/knows right and wrong?

I know all children are different but my 4 year old knows not to touch fire doors and our front door without permission. At 4 the nursery will have probably told all the kids in the preschool class not to touch it without an adult saying so and it’s only to be used in an emergency. Just sounds like your 4 year old fancied having a look. The only doors in my sons nursery that don’t have high up locks are the fire doors, they need to be accessible even by a 4 year old in case they ever need to use it in a emergency.

I don’t think they did anything wrong by emailing you about it personally and I don’t think it was their fault your 4 year old chose to do what he did. Kids need to learn boundaries, this is one of them.

What? Why aren’t the doors locked? If there’s a fire the locks should automatically open.

This is a silly leap. We have zero information to suggest that the child wasn't being appropriately supervised for his age. It takes seconds for a child to run to and push open a door - it's absolutely something that can happen while adults are actively supervising a group and even telling the child not to do it in the moment. Absent identified SEN adjustments, appropriate supervision for a 4-year-old does not mean full-time physical restraint.

If I were OP I would ask about the circumstances and what precautions are in place to prevent a child who does this from making it through the main door as well, but just assuming the staff weren't supervising appropriately is uncalled for.

Not exactly silly. As I said, similar happened very recently in the nursery my friend works in and Ofsted are taking it very seriously.

What happened at your friend's nursery? A child opened an internal door?

100% This.
At 4 they are old enough to be told that that particular door is for emergencies only and only gets opened if there is danger.

Fire doors need to be easy to open and they need to lead to a route that gets them away from an internal danger within the building. Time to sit down with your child and tell them they’re not in trouble but a fire door is for emergencies only and opening one when there isn’t an emergency is not a safe choice.

Quite.
My not yet 3yr old can and does unlock and open doors, and while he's supervised, he can be very quick and persistent.

He knows its not allowed but at this agecthey have limited impulse control. Our nursery kids sometimes move rooms do he coukd easily be in the 4yrs rooms and he would be out if that door if the mood took him. Eg couldn't play with toys he wanted or didn't like the staff that day. He can also open main nursery door. Fire doors open onto secure playground so not a risk at his nursery.
Internal doors are on card access so also not a problem.
Op's nursery set up needs changing.
Relying on a 4 yr old to not open a door is as safe as asking them not to touch chocolate....

This.
It's outrageous that they are trying to blame your son, and by association you, for something that is their responsibility.

Push back, and push back hard. You want assurances they will keep your son safe.

Agtee. He's 4, not 2. Surely you tell him not to do it again and the matter is closed. Anyone suggesting a fire door should be locked or inaccessible in an absolute moron