Is this my sons fault or nursery’s fault?

[Mummymummymummyy]

I just had an email from my 4years old pre school saying there was an incident today and I need to sign the form when he next comes in- as they didn’t mention at pick up. The incident is that he opened the fire door which leads to the nursery main door which opens onto a busy road. The tone of the email is all about how bad it is my son did this and how shocked they all were. It says they they had a talk with him about safety and how bad it is to open the door, and can I also talk to him. I’m glad they took it seriously and mentioned it, but I’m kind of annoyed and wondering if I should be. Surely the issue is that a nursery isn’t properly child proof, if a door can be opened by a child. It’s not like I have taught him to open doors and although of course I will talk to him about it- surely they themselves need to address this. a precious nursery he went to had buttons up high to press to open doors, and buzzers etc.

am I unreasonable to be annoyed?

It’s a fire door.
You’d be really cross if he couldn’t open it and there was a fire!
You can’t lock a fire door or prevent it from being accessed - you have to consider the emergency situation.

It isn’t unreasonable to ask and expect a 4y to know and follow rules. Yes, they might forget - and there needs to be supervision. It seems like there was in that he was stopped before leaving via the door for example.

But it’s tricky as you can’t lock or prevent the fire door from being opened from the inside for obvious reasons.

Have you tested that out?
If the room is full of thick acrid black smoke?

Could a child escape a fire if the adults in charge were incapacitated?

I agree. Some people seem to be under the impression the nursery staff should have locked the fire door and barricaded it. That would be safe in a fire!
I feel so sorry for school and nursery staff these days the way people treat them, while believing a 4 year old should never be told no. My dd was at school soon after turning four. She'd have got into trouble if she'd decided to let herself out of the fire door.

Exactly this, imagine the outrage if children were trapped in that room if it was on fire.

I don't see why it all has to be about blame. The staff know they have to supervise hence they supervised and stopped him exiting the door. He is a child and there are lots of things to learn, not opening fire doors is one of them. He's had the lesson. Well done everyone.

Don't forget there should also be 1 to 1 staffing with a member of staff one step behind each child at all times. I'm sure mum would be happy to pay the fees that would necessitate.

Are they mental? Blaming a child for their own safeguarding mistake. I’d be getting legal advice and contacting CQC.

There was no safeguarding mistake. A child opened a door which led into a internal hallway. It was not a fire exit. It was just a fire door. The child was seen opening the door and stopped. The child was spoken to by the nursery to reiterate why he should open the door. The nursery procedure for reporting to the parent was followed. The nursery have asked the parent to speak to the child to ensure he understands that he should not just open doors.

Is that what the preschool teacher thought when she put the baby to sleep on a bean bag and didn't check up?

She got sent down because a child died on her watch?

What they want is not important. What they need is for staff to pay more attention, have more staff if the building isn't safe for little ones. What they need is more cameras.

What they need is training the staff to be aware of the natural curiosity of children.

😳😳😳

Would you really have an issue backing up the staff on reminding your son of the rules? The expectation is that there’s a collaboration between parents and staff. It’s sounds like the staff stepped in when they were supposed to, as they would if the child was hitting another (for example). Are you the sort of parent to think their child can do no wrong? 🙄

Babies are obviously a different ball game they can't ask for things and follow instructions like 4 year olds can. Also putting babies down for sleep in a safe way is part of a nursery worker's role so your comparison makes no sense. Whereas instilling a respect for rules/boundaries/structure being set by schools should be something a parent does otherwise how can educators get anything done if they're spending all their time managing behaviour and having their whole attention taken up by one kid that can't/won't follow basic instructions.

The child is 4 years old. What do you expect? Nature makes children curious. It is how they learn.

The staff are paid to keep the children safe.

If the child is not allowed to go through a door without an adult, then some physical barrier must be there to stop him. Teachers and their aids are there to prevent the children from coming to harm, otherwise they would just be left on their own.

How can you expect a four year old not to want to be curious? At that age, too, it is difficult to teach little ones about danger.

There are so many instances in life where adults are lacking in sense.

There would be no fatalities on the road if adults didn't take risks and didn't drink alcohol.

There would be no double yellow lines along the pavements if adults could be trusted not to park in hazardous areas.

People should not park on pavements, yet how many times have you been unable to push a stroller?

It takes a long time to teach anyone about safety, yet you think that a four year old should be able to learn rules of safety that even some adults ignore?

Children are not perfect. They also have short memories and have to be told over and over many things. You should be able to teach teenagers one time, yet how many times do they break the rules?

Little ones need to know why they mustn't do something. It is no use telling them not to do something - and how is he to know a door mustn't be opened if adults are going in and out all the time? - without explaining why.

It is too much to expect a child of four to remember everything. How many children under five can read a notice to remind them? Many children over five cannot read. Perhaps a large picture of an open door with a great red cross might help, but how does a child of 4 - or even up to 6 - work out the meanings of rules?

The staff should LOCK THE DOOR TO THE school room so that the children cannot escape to the corridor. Have a bolt put on the door.

Adults know what a roped off barrier is, but children do not have the capacity to understand and we should not expect it of them. If we do they lose heart.

Yes, children are curious. And the key part of what you said is ‘that’s how they learn’. And if nursery staff tell the 4 year old not to touch the door, and at home parents reinforce the importance of boundaries, then yes: gradually, that’s exactly how they learn. To respect adults. To stay safe. That boundaries are there to protect them so that, as adults, they will hopefully make sensible choices.
What ISN’T helpful, is when parents refuse to take any accountability for their child’s behaviour. Obviously at 4, they’re going to forget things and won’t remember first time, or all the time. But if parents refuse to assist in effective parenting (teaching child right from wrong) and constantly blame the whole world but never their previous offspring then yes, you’ve got a whole heap of trouble on your hands when they grow up, And they’re more likely to make the kind of reckless decisions you’re talking about.

Baffles me how so many people think a four year old should consistently be able to ‘follow the rules’ and/or simple instructions! Seriously? I work with 4-5 year olds every day, sometimes they don’t know their own name!!

I don't agree. That works sometimes with older children.

The nursery is entirely at fault.

So you don’t believe in teaching your child rules?
Wow.
The nursery would definitely be at fault if the child had managed to go through the door and been injured or similar. But he didn’t. He was caught trying a fire door and all they’re asking of OP is that she back him up and remind him of the rules. Presumably she’s had a chat with them and everyone’s in agreement, as she hasn’t come back to the discussion.

It doesn't have to be either-or the parent reinforcing the rules or nursery taking precautions - it can be both.

It would be easier for OP to reinforce the rules if they'd told her exactly what the children have been told (e.g. don't touch the door with the fire symbol on unless the alarm is going off/unless a teacher tells you to, or whatever it is exactly). OP had no reason up to this point to even know there were rules around fire exits.

They should also be saying the precautions they take if they think they're adequate, or what will change. e.g. we remind all the children about the rules on fire exits every Tuesday when we test the smoke alarms. Or at the beginning of each free play session (bet they don't!). Or there's an alarm on the door which alerted staff in time to stop him exiting the building. Or whatever it is.

At the moment they have told OP that her child nearly escaped the nursery, and they've told her the precaution for stopping this happening again is being shocked at the child's bad behaviour. That really is not reassuring and you can see why OP is alarmed.

MN-ers have made up reasons it might not be as bad as it sounds but they're a bit of a stretch. This door must be openable because it's a fire exit route but the external door was definitely locked is not a consistent story.

Only when they are old enough to understand. You may have given birth to brilliant children who walked at 7 months, bone dry by 2. could say long words in sentences, brilliant at maths, played the piano and could remember his ABC forward and backward and reading and writing at three.

Not all children are as gifted. You cannot assume that pre-school children can disseminate in their minds and work out problems, learn off by heart stuff teenagers cannot learn.

kids will be kids and that’s why they must been watched at all times.

What a silly post. A child of 4 doesn't have to be brilliant or gifted to be able to learn not to do something when told.
They'll never learn if you don't bother to tell them. This isn't a baby we're talking about. It's lazy to not bother to try and teach children to be safe. No one is saying they should already know everything.

I did not say it was impossible to teach a child anything. Nor did I say it was lazy not to.

You have to keep reminding children. They have to be able to assimilate information, breaking it down in their minds. It has to be applied sometimes many times over before they get the message. Even then, curiosity gets the better of them.

Teachers and their aids should open up the preschool bearing in mind that whatever children learn one day is forgotten the next. They should lock doors they don't want children to enter. If the door is solid wood, it could have a window where curious children can look through.

You can castigate me all you like, but children of four do not always have the capacity to remember rules.
BTW the first of my sentences described my son. He couldn't play the piano or recite the alphabet backwards because I didn't teach him those things, but they all could read before they went to kindergarten at 4, but rules just took a little longer to sink in sometimes.

I looked back at the OPs post and I cannot see that she said she refused to teach her child right from wrong at home.

Oh come on, now you’re just being facetious. Most are old enough to learn a basic grasp of rules at 4. Yes, it’s the nursery’s responsibility to keep them safe. It is also the parents’ responsibility to remind them of those rules. The OP even said she intended to have a chat with her DS to back up what the nursery said, so it’s not an either/or situation, as you keep insisting.
You keep saying that children of that age need to be reminded over and over and yes, they do. Yet you also say you wouldn’t support the preschool in reminding the child of the rules?