Nursery accidents

[Luke1054]

Son is 3 years and 3 months. No accidents at home, well, maybe two over the past 3 months….but at nursery he’s been having accidents for 5 months, average 4 accidents a day…every day he’s there.

they seem to offer no solution to this issue or if they do (like a sticker reward chart) they keep it up for a few days then it gets forgotten about. They only usually do this after I’ve expressed concerns.

he doesn’t speak well but can say poo poo meaning he wants to go to the toilet.

the usual story when challenged is that it’s a big room with a lot of children, my son doesn’t tell them, or it’s a tough job and staff turnover is high.

there have been other issues as well which I won’t go off topic with, one being him moving to the pre school room which seemed to be more about filling their spaces rather than my sons best interests) but I feel massively let down by the nursery and can’t really see how he will stop the accidents as there seems to be no plan or urgency on their part.

am I best to just submit a formal complaint as I have tried verbally for months to no avail.

Thanks for reading.

In that case I’d change nurseries as it doesn’t sound like a good setup or a very good nursery. He either needs to be able to take himself to the toilet, or they need procedures in place to take the kids straight away when they need. They probably don’t have enough staff to manage this. I’d move him somewhere that has access to toilets and better practices. It’s important as he needs to have this sorted before school and the nursery don’t sound as if they are helping him with it.

I like this answer. I think you’re totally right.

although this week after my fuss they have been writing it down. But only when he has an accident.

when I collected him yesterday he’d weed himself. I asked when he last went to the toilet they said “17:15”…when I checked the time to see how long ago that was it was 17:27.

12 minutes after they said they’d taken him.

Absolutely they should. But they don't seem like a good nursery, so aren't. You also say you aren't willing to move him, so in that case you probably need to do more of the legwork to get your son to a solution that works.

But honestly, if they aren't able to support something like potty training, how are they going to be able to help get your child ready for school etc?

Every nursery I’ve worked in has the children move on their 3rd birthday as that is when their pre school funding starts.

you aren’t a childcare provider but you are his parent, make suggestions to help, we offer advice that has previously worked for us but we also take the lead from parents at times. (I can assure you that potty training isn’t part of our qualifications it’s all trial and error.)

I just don’t know how they can behave like this though and show such poor practices. There must be some further action I could take, like ofstead complaint or something as it’s clear to see they aren’t doing well.

like I mentioned earlier there are many other complaints I could have which I’ve decided to keep verbal in hope they’d sort themselves out.

Ask to speak with his keyperson. They should be making sure that he goes to the toilet. Ask that he gets taken hourly to start, then reminded hourly. You could make a chart yourself and take it in and say that the toilet is becoming an issue and you don't want it to spoil his enjoyment of nursery. Use small stickers when he 'tries' to go (so there should be lots of small stickers if they've taken him) and then special bigger sticker for a successful visit! Use something that he loves. So spiderman theme or tractors or whatever his interest is. It doesn't have to be really fancy. Just an A4 sheet with his name at the top. Then stick the sticker wherever he likes. You could ask to swap keyperson if you think they haven't made a good connection.

You sound so dissatisfied with the service they provide, yeah complain to ofsted but also complain with your feet and change nurseries

do all parents at the nursery have the same opinion? I know I wouldn’t send my child to a place that provided a poor service and that I complained about. You obviously don’t trust the staff.

@Luke1054 if you don't want to move him you need to address it with the nursery manager and be clear you want them to be more proactive at managing this.

When is he moving settings? Is he going to school nursery or will it be reception?

Btw I worked in nurseries for a long time the only way a child would be having that many accidents is if they weren't toilet trained and nursery would usually suggest going back to nappies until they are ready.

i had to make my own sticker chart for him because I asked them to do one and even with reminders, after 3 weeks they hadn’t done it. They did eventually when I brought my own in and told them I’m very disappointed that i have to make my own sticker chart.

the stickers went well for a few days then one day I picked him up he was stood there with the stickers putting them on the chart himself all over it. after this I pointed out it’s not really worth having a sticker chart if it’s not being followed. Which I think is a fair point.

also, as I said previously, the main excuse is “it’s a hard job and we’ve had recruitment issues, new staff come in etc…but that’s their issue and as much as I sympathise, they need to adapt to this.

There’s been no suggestion of that by the nursery.
There’s been no accidents at home for months. We can go on days out and there’s no accidents. He wears a nappy for bed but sometimes wakes up in the night. He shouts us as he wants us to take him as it’s dark.

You sound like you don't trust the nursery, don't trust the workers, want to complain to OFSTED and management- move him! It's not working the relationship between you dnd them.

I’d have thought though that being under a regulated body that they’d have to help us. Not do anything, or half heartedly attempt and just push us to the point of us taking our child away from his friends and familiar environment.

The preschool room is appropriate for a three year old, here anyway, maybe things are different where you are. But here they move at two and then at three. It needs to happen around their birthdays so the nursery can plan. There will have been a two year old toddler rampaging around the baby room who needed the space in toddlers remember!

Sounds like the problem is the toilets not being in the room if he's comfortable taking himself off and home and isn't speaking yet. He maybe needs some non verbal cues - could they put a picture of a toilet on the wall so he can bring a staff member over to that and point to it?

Four accidents in a day is a lot, I'm surprised they're not asking you to put him back in nappies. You're right that they should be working with you (ours did in a less extreme situation) - the fact that they aren't and the set up of the room isn't working for him makes me think you should consider moving him.

Does he have another year before school?

To offer a contrast & what you should expect- when my son was 2 and a half/ three and toilet training was a bit slow, the nursery:

• They discussed signs of toilet training readiness with me and we decided together when to “wait and see” or give TT a rest, and when it felt developmentally appropriate to focus on it more
• worked with me on a reward sticker book we used at home and at nursery - time stamped each entry
• Seemed to be really proactive with DS in the nursery - I believed when they said they were checking he needed the toilet, taking him when he asked (same set up as yours with toilets in separate room)
• gave incentive certificates to DS for successes themselves
• verbally told me about successes/ bad days
• suggested things we could do at home (weirdly he was dry at night and out of nappies - it was the day we struggled with!)
• Half termly overall reports had a section on personal care etc

very ordinary, quite big and busy nursery. Staff super caring and some very well qualified but I would say more than half were minimum standard qualified staff. What was uniform though, was that they all really cared about the kids. It just sounds like your nursery… doesn’t. Which would be enough for me to look for a new one.

Yeah they sound hopeless - move him.

They have never suggested this about nappies.

he has one more year until school. These 4 accidents a day has been going on for months with no improvement and any attempts to resolve this last a few days.

the other excuse they used lately was that they were focussing on the children that were getting ready to go to school so things were a bit all over the place. Aka, my child was of lesser concern.

That's such a shame. You'd think it would be in their interest to get him sorted. It's not the best part of the job, changing accidents. But still - potty training etc IS part of the job and they should be making reasonable steps to help him with this. The fact that you've brought up the issue and still they aren't doing anything is a big red flag!

As much as you think he's made friends there etc I'd go and look at other settings. Especially as you have other concerns there. It shouldn't be like that at all.

Are there any other local places, nurseries or childminders that would have children that would go on to the same school eventually? He will soon make new friends, better if they are his school cohort! They are pretty resilient. You can still inform ofsted after he's left about your concerns. Then it will be looked into for the sake of the other children.

My neice was at a bigger setting and she really didn't do well there. Delayed speech, huge tantrums etc. After a horrendous ofsted report, they pulled her out immediately and put her with a childminder. She thrived in the smaller environment and came on in leaps and bounds. Chats non stop, the most confident little girl. Really was the best decision for her.

I’m happy to move him out of there don’t get me wrong but my emotional issue is that he’s got friends there’s and he’s used to that environment.

this is why I want them to help and I can’t understand why they won’t or aren’t obliged to as childcare providers.

Some children will have accidents at nursery when they are toilet trained elsewhere. Sometimes there is no obvious reason either. We can remind a child every half hour, take them every hour etc but they still have accidents. Most do grow through it.

In the early stages of potty training it’s quite often because they are busy and leave it to the last minute. Some children have genuine bladder/bowel problems such as constipation that they take medication for and this can mean they have more frequent accidents too.

It is much easier for children to be potty trained in the 2-3yo room as the staff to child ratio is higher and the room is usually set up to accommodate this developmental skill. At preschool age it can be more difficult for staff ratio to accommodate toilet training at the same level of supervision.

Ultimately though look at how you manage toileting at home. Do you offer reminders? Do you prompt? Offer rewards? Or is it entirely self motivated. If you are giving any kind of prompt (even subconsciously) then stop and see if he can manage alone at home. If he is only managing with a prompt then he is still training.

When will the children going to school leave? At our nursery they move to the out of school club on 1 July so in a week the number of children in preschool will fall sharply. If that's coming I'd give it a few weeks and see if things improve when it's quieter.

If it won't happen til September I'd move him now so he has plenty of time at the new nursery. I know he has friends where he is, but they do make new friends easily at that age and the staff really don't sound great.

My guess would be that if there’s any children leaving they’ll have children ready to replace them with.

I think after reading these comments on the thread it may be wise for us to start looking somewhere else.

This is really good advise. But what a shame the nursery full of professionals, who we pay £800 a month to out of our own money isn’t coming up with these suggestions and I’m having to resort to mumsnet!

It sounds like a communication issue. He needs to be able to show a card or point to the wall.

I’m assuming at 3 with limited vocab you will have salt involvement. Have you asked them for advice?

If he’s used to an environment where he can’t express a basic need, such as the toilet, I’d view that as a negative not a reason to stay. And they make friends so easily at that age. Mine both moved or are moving at 3 to school nursery- no issues whatsoever with settling and making new friends. In fact they were great at encouraging independent toileting because it’s all about school readiness and staff turnover was pretty much non existent as they’d all been there for 10+ years.