Nursery dilemma - would really welcome thoughts as to what you would do

[Summermeadowflowers]

My ds turns 3 in one month. Since he was 9 months, he has attended nursery: five days a week from being 9 months - 19 months, then three days.

In that time, he’s also changed nurseries. We moved house in summer 2022 and the nursery he was originally at is one of a small local chain with five day nurseries in the area. It isn’t the most convenient for our house but it is quite near my workplace so that’s fine.

All was fine, but recently I’ve been getting a lot of reports about ds being unkind to his friends - pushing and hitting and snatching toys. Ds does have that side to him and we did have a phase of biting when he was around 18 months but that did stop. I always thought that it would improve when his language improved but now his language is really good it’s harder to use that as an ‘excuse.’

I did end up asking for a meeting with nursery about it and I’ve come out none the wiser - they are going to see what his triggers are (ABC strategy, if anyone is familiar with this) and they did say that behaviour in that room is challenging at the moment and they feel ds is copying a lot of behaviour.

It’s very hard as there isn’t anything tangible I can put my finger on but I am feeling a bit uneasy about a few things. One is the level of staff turnover. I know that people come and go and get shifted around but there doesn’t seem to be much continuity which will obviously impact on behaviour.

I am also a bit concerned that the meeting came from me. Surely some sort of plan should have been in place with me involved as well?

Also, ds doesn’t seem too happy about nursery at the moment, although it’s very hard to say with him - he gives very little away to be honest. He’s fine going in but doesn’t seem too enthusiastic and there was a worrying episode several months ago where he was becoming extremely distressed at going in. He did keep mentioning a particular child’s name but without any context so I still don’t know what was happening there.

The other thing that is relevant is ds has started to do sessions at a preschool (more on this below) and I’ve had no complaints at all about behaviour. This could be due to the novelty factor, shorter sessions so I don’t want to make assumptions but it is making me consider maybe the setting isn’t helping.

So - a new nursery has opened that is actually within walking distance although still a fair trek (we are quite remote!) and a five minute car journey, if that. It’s another local chain so shouldn’t be at risk of closure and a friend has a daughter at another branch and seems very happy so that’s all good.

I am currently on maternity leave and planning to go back to work at the end of June. I will be doing two days rather than my original three. My thinking is that I could potentially enrol both children to do two days from the end of June. For the rest of my maternity leave ds could attend preschool to give me us a break and this would also hugely help with costs as his nursery placement is my maternity pay, and when that goes to the unpaid part will be a struggle. But I just don’t know if I’m jumping the gun. I don’t want everything familiar to ds to change but I also don’t see the current situation as beneficial to anybody. And with his third birthday approaching and the end of the year it’s a good time to make changes, if I do. I just feel so guilty!

we’re the “reports” from nursery?

Where else? I’m not asking that to sound rude, just wondering if my post is confusing in some way. Also, why the inverted commas?

parents of other children attending 😐

. I don’t want everything familiar to ds to change

but he doesn’t seem happy with the familiar. so i would make the change

No. I don’t actually know any - I only see them in passing at pick up and drop off and I would be withdrawing any child in a heartbeat if I was being communicated to by parents rather than by nursery staff.

I wouldn't remove him from A, to send to B then change to C in a few months (then D a year later presumably when he starts school?)

I would change to a new setting now for until school age.

@PuttingDownRoots thats a good way of doing it.

A is current nursery.

B is new nursery

C is preschool

There’s always going to be a mix of C with either A and B. Ideally I would just use preschool but I can’t with my working hours.

If - and having typed it all out I am leaning towards this - I get ds in preschool January - June 2024 then nursery B two days a week June 24 - July 25. Then he starts school September 25.

I think your plan to reduce nursery down to just preschool while you are on maternity - assuming you can secure the places you need for June - is an excellent idea.

Thanks - my worries are that it would be disruptive for him and that it may be out of the frying pan and into the fire!

Is there a reason you use a preschool and a nursery? Just wondering as both will follow the EYFS during the main part of the day so should be the same curriculum. I'd possibly move him but just to one new setting rather than the preschool and a new setting. If the room has a lot of behavioural issues that he is picking up on it may be that the children with those needs are getting the majority of the attention and that is impacting on the other children.

I work in a preschool and I would move him as you've said. It sounds like they've got a tricky cohort and your son isn't enjoying it as much as he should be. We have had a few children come to us from other settings for the same reasons. They always settle. I would say though two settings might be harder for him to navigate especially in his preschool year. It's harder to maintain strong friendships when you are only there 2/3 times a week compared to those that are there everyday together and generally children attending more sessions always had a positive impact on them, unless the child is very outgoing a confident.

I've had similar phases with both DC (both at nursery FT), and for both it was an unclear muddle of them instigating it, them copying bad behaviour, obvious triggers, behaviour out of the blue. It was impossible to discern any pattern to make a "prevention" plan, but all we could do was have an agreed "afterwards" plan, in terms of how nursery staff and DH and I dealt with the behaviour. I was very anxious about it but the nursery staff were quite relaxed - not because it wasn't important - but because they'd seen it countless times before,knew what to do, and knew it would pass.

Personally, given what you've explained sounds fairly normal to me, I wouldn't move DC into to an untried setting until it's up and running. The only caveat being if you really do think he's long term unhappy then that might affect my thinking.

I'm not clear why you're mixing in a different pre-school? Isn't that very confusing?

@Tumbleweed101

The nursery is essentially for childcare: I need it to cover my working hours. The preschool is just for socialisation and to meet children he’ll be at school with (and to give me a bit of a break! )

Thanks @justl0st . He is pretty confident -as a rule and it’s a very small setting. I can’t use just the preschool unfortunately because as above - working hours.

@FoxtrotSkarloey its really hard to know. I wasn’t massively reassured by my meeting with them but as you’ve said it could just be that they’ve seen it all before.

A few people have asked about mixing the settings. It’s just because nursery would be (say) Monday and Tuesday when I’m at work. Then Wednesday - Friday ds could do mornings at preschool while I do a ‘baby’ activity with dd then all of us have afternoons together (or any other variation.)

If you've been to see the new nursery, and you like it, and if they have a place then I would swap over yes

The only thing I'd be mindful of is the routine disruption between Jan when notice would run out on current and June when he would start new. If he's very good at swapping routines that is fine, but if he struggles it might be worth going straight from the old to the new (or maybe a 2 week break max) just so that he doesn't get too used to being with you from lunchtime onwards all weekdays. Helps with settling at a new place

You have been pregnant and a baby has arrived that unsettles things but I'd take him out and use preschool giving him more time with you then make a decision on nursery....when will he start reception?

I am still very undecided as to what is best. He has also had a series of very nasty ear infections and we’ve just realised today it has happened again and this will explain last weeks behaviour as he often does become less tolerant of others when he is in pain (as we all are I suppose.)

He does tend to be pretty stoic about change of routines though.

He may not be quite as stoic as you think. Behaviour is communication so what he is doing in nursery could be interpreted as manifestation of his internal state. You don't mention the impact of the new baby at all and that can be huge for a child and is potentially the reason for a change in his behaviour.

That’s because I can’t really send her back @Peepshowcreepshow .

I am really sorry if that sounds snappy but I do get a bit wear of posts like above. She’s here and while I am hugely sympathetic to the fact it’s disrupted life for ds I’ve also made a huge effort to try to minimise it but it has, of course it has.

However, his ear is a far more likely culprit. DD is four months today and that’s a long time in the life of a child who isn’t yet three and I think he is used to her. That’s one of the main motivations of keeping him in nursery (which is literally more than my SMP that I am currently on) to try to keep things normal for him.

I've worked with children for over 20 years just because baby is 4 months doesn't mean he isn't reacting to the changes she's brought. No need to get snappy or sarcastic obviously you can't send her back and children do adjust but now the fuss has died down kids digest how much life has changed etc it's a lot to cope with and often comes out in other surroundings where they have to compete as well.....it's no Criticism of you.

i hardly dare post this OP

but listen to @jannier

I am sure @jannier

But the reason I’m getting snappy is because I posted for advice about nurseries. You may not be aware but there are some very unpleasant posts aimed at those of us who dared to have another child. I need advice related to what I’m actually posting about. DD is here; she isn’t going anywhere so that actually wasn’t sarcastic. There is nothing I can do to change that fact even if I wanted to and I don’t. I love her and cherish her, as I do ds, and I’m trying to work out what arrangement is best for us all.

@Afteropening if you hardly dare post, then don’t, really. I won’t mind

Take him out of anything from Jan-June and do groups etc.

Then get both kids in the same new nursery from July.

I think that would be a very bad idea for all of us @Hercisback . I’m definitely not going to have him home with me all the time, whatever I eventually decide.

That's fair enough, if you're going to do that I'd move him in reduced hours to the same nursery his sibling will go to in Jan.

Then add in pre school from Sept 24.

I think you’ve misunderstood; DD won’t be starting nursery until July, and I don’t know which nursery she’ll be going to - that’s why I posted