Nursery dilemma - would really welcome thoughts as to what you would do

[Summermeadowflowers]

My ds turns 3 in one month. Since he was 9 months, he has attended nursery: five days a week from being 9 months - 19 months, then three days.

In that time, he’s also changed nurseries. We moved house in summer 2022 and the nursery he was originally at is one of a small local chain with five day nurseries in the area. It isn’t the most convenient for our house but it is quite near my workplace so that’s fine.

All was fine, but recently I’ve been getting a lot of reports about ds being unkind to his friends - pushing and hitting and snatching toys. Ds does have that side to him and we did have a phase of biting when he was around 18 months but that did stop. I always thought that it would improve when his language improved but now his language is really good it’s harder to use that as an ‘excuse.’

I did end up asking for a meeting with nursery about it and I’ve come out none the wiser - they are going to see what his triggers are (ABC strategy, if anyone is familiar with this) and they did say that behaviour in that room is challenging at the moment and they feel ds is copying a lot of behaviour.

It’s very hard as there isn’t anything tangible I can put my finger on but I am feeling a bit uneasy about a few things. One is the level of staff turnover. I know that people come and go and get shifted around but there doesn’t seem to be much continuity which will obviously impact on behaviour.

I am also a bit concerned that the meeting came from me. Surely some sort of plan should have been in place with me involved as well?

Also, ds doesn’t seem too happy about nursery at the moment, although it’s very hard to say with him - he gives very little away to be honest. He’s fine going in but doesn’t seem too enthusiastic and there was a worrying episode several months ago where he was becoming extremely distressed at going in. He did keep mentioning a particular child’s name but without any context so I still don’t know what was happening there.

The other thing that is relevant is ds has started to do sessions at a preschool (more on this below) and I’ve had no complaints at all about behaviour. This could be due to the novelty factor, shorter sessions so I don’t want to make assumptions but it is making me consider maybe the setting isn’t helping.

So - a new nursery has opened that is actually within walking distance although still a fair trek (we are quite remote!) and a five minute car journey, if that. It’s another local chain so shouldn’t be at risk of closure and a friend has a daughter at another branch and seems very happy so that’s all good.

I am currently on maternity leave and planning to go back to work at the end of June. I will be doing two days rather than my original three. My thinking is that I could potentially enrol both children to do two days from the end of June. For the rest of my maternity leave ds could attend preschool to give me us a break and this would also hugely help with costs as his nursery placement is my maternity pay, and when that goes to the unpaid part will be a struggle. But I just don’t know if I’m jumping the gun. I don’t want everything familiar to ds to change but I also don’t see the current situation as beneficial to anybody. And with his third birthday approaching and the end of the year it’s a good time to make changes, if I do. I just feel so guilty!

And attachment theory? I only just saw that - do you actually know anything about it? I’m genuinely asking because I am actually really shocked anyone could suggest changing a child’s nursery could cause ‘attachment issues.’ That, and the bizarre insistence that DS has been to six different settings in two years is really making me wonder if you are posting for genuine reasons.

Even if I did as I was considering and changed DS nursery, the timeline would look like this

September 21 - august 22 - Summer-meadow nursery

August 22 - December 23 - different branch of summer meadow nursery

January 23 - July 23 - preschool

September 23 - July 25 - preschool + new nursery

September 25 - school

So an absolute maximum of five - if we count school, which pretty much every child will transition to - in four years.

Are you all right? I thought I was fairly unshockable but I am actually really taken aback by that post. Attachment issues?

Hi
It's quite normal for behaviour to be mentioned at nursery. It sounds like he, and maybe other children too, are bored at current nursery and therefore using challenging behaviour. You probably got the tail end of worn out staff having a moan about having to control multiple behaviour issues. I would take him out of nursery during mat leave. High staff turn over won't help situation as he's having to deal with new faces and lack of consistency. Preschool is obviously stimulating, less staff (and probs child) turnover and therefore he feels stable and relaxed and not acting up. You need to take a holistic view of the child and understand that all factors are contributing to his behaviour - ear, new sibling, other children, constant new faces. I also think more time with new sibling can help.

I know you haven't asked but I do think he will really miss it when you take him out of there in July 2024 to start new nursery Sept. Children are resilient and will cope with change so it's not a huge problem, but I think it's maybe a shame you are completely shunning the childminder picking up from preschool idea. I have worked with many children and most adapt to change better than adults, however if he's really loving preschool you need to prepare him for that change. If there was no way of keeping him in preschool because you won't consider the childminder pick up, then I'd be inclined to stop it soon rather than deal with the emotions when you go back to work.

@WhatILoved - thanks for reply.

When I started the thread I’d had a couple of weeks of reports of poor behaviour and it was concerning me. I understand they have to report it (and in fact welcome this) but I did want to know what was going to happen going forwards.

DS’s ear bursting has put a new light on it all and I feel a bit relieved that he isn’t turning into the devil child - obviously sorry he’s in pain. Of course, it isn’t solely his ear and if behaviour in the room is a challenge that will have an impact.

He won’t be stopping preschool when I go back to work, it is just I can’t use it exclusively because it doesn’t fit with my working hours. When I go back to work, our week will probably be something like DS at preschool Monday morning, Thursday morning and Friday morning and nursery Tuesday and Wednesday.

OP you sound very tense and, well, unhappy.

What does partner think would be a good approach re childcare and your son?

* I feel a bit relieved that he isn’t turning into the devil child*

even if his ear was 100% fine and no issue and still this behaviour - it need not have worried you. why? because he’s a young toddler having gone through substantial upheaval

I’m not @idealgift , but like most parents (I hope!) if my child isn’t happy it’s a worry for me. And I don’t know if he’s happy or not, so I have to guess and make a big decision and it is hard knowing it it is the right one or not. Just typing it out is helpful. If I do sound tense, it might because it would be good if we could discuss the topic I posted about.

DH leaves anything like that to me!

What upheaval would that be, a new sibling <sigh>

Please, please can we stick to what I posted about?

that is so unfair of your DH OP

was he worried by the reports?

you say not something your DH would be involved with but what about a good friend to have a. chat with over a coffee? a mum / sibling?

Your DH should be involved and talking to you about this. You're a partnership not you doing everything related to the children. This is the time when you need that sounding board and discussion.

Your initial posts really gave the vibe you wanted to change his nursery, but now your latter ones have reflected on his ear possibly causing the misbehaving.

Why not do pre school from Jan and nothing else, then there's a big gap between old and potential new nursery. Then new nursery for both in Sept 24 if you can cover the few week you're back at work? Not sure this is viable though. Sorry if this doenst work, think I've over complicated the scenario!

Ultimately, I genuinely apologise if this sounds grumpy. I was up overnight and up early. I’m also struggling with some pain from a condition predating children.

But. I just posted wondering if I should consider changing DS nursery. Nothing else.

The devil child comment was very tongue in cheek. Those posts are deliberately provocative.

ok i will bow out now. i suspect there is a lot going on here but god forbid anyone that raises anything other than THE ISSUE!!!

I think bowing out would be best. There’s nothing else ‘going on’ other than normal baby / toddler stuff and it’s posts like that which are why I’m trying to keep people on topic, as some posts have been really bizarre.

i’d not thought of that but true!

Hi OP,

I have a 3 year age gap between my two children and when the new baby came along my first son completely changed his character. He went from being a perfect child to being a devil child.

At pre-school he was put on behaviour charts as he was known to lash out at other children, throw toys, take toys from others, ignore the staff, be disruptive etc and just generally misbehave. I used to dread picking him up. One day I even cried when I collected him because each daily report about his behaviour was negative and I felt like I just couldn’t cope with hearing it anymore. My son had become someone I didn’t even recognise.

I have no doubt it was the arrival of his sibling that caused the change in his character and behaviour but like you said, second babies can’t be put back in!

I removed him from that setting because although the primary issue was the new baby, the pre-school environment he was in was obviously not right for him anymore. It was a hard decision to make but me and DH knew we had to do something. Ultimately we changed him to another childcare setting and within a few months he was back to his lovely, normal self and it may have been due to the setting change or it may be that it coincided with the baby getting older and him adapting to having a sibling and having to share our attention. There’s no way of knowing.

Either way - I empathise with your situation and the difficulty of the decision you have to make. You don’t say how old your baby is (unless I’ve missed it) but my son’s behaviour didn’t settle until his sibling was about 5-6 months of age. I suppose you could give it a bit longer to see if his behaviour calms if it’s happening in reaction to the baby’s arrival rather than put him through the upheaval of changing his setting when it may not be necessary, or you can just make the change and hope for the best.

It sounds likes been at the nursery for a long time though and there haven’t been any reported problems previously which would suggest it’s behavioural changes due to the new baby, but if there are no problems being reported at the pre-school then it would suggest a problem with the nursery setting.

Personally, in your situation I would remove him from the setting where the poor behaviours are happening but obviously I’ve got a biased opinion as that’s what I did.

I wish you the best of luck making your decision but be reassured that whatever decision you make your son will be fine and it will all work out in the end.

And congratulations on your new baby!!

Thanks for that compassionate and helpful reply

The 6 is the one before he moved and the school wrap around

Yes avoid moving him as his behaviour is normal for his age and unless he could just go to pre school which doesn't work for you there is no guarantee disturbing him and letting him settle somewhere new would help

Yes I do ...
It is a lot of change in his early years most would be one nursery then school nursery and school plus wrap around. Obviously some have more changes and if you have to for any reason you do change things but it's not ideal so I wouldn't do it unless absolutely necessary.
I'm not saying what has happened is wrong but that future moves would for me be to make as few as possible and to consider planning in as much consistency in care as possible....hence the question about childminders who could see you from now right through to age 11 plus. Not all children thrive in an after school club ...but as your job means rare after school and no holidays it's less important.....most teachers in my experience don't get home before 5 and don't have a second parent who stops work at 3 so it's an issue for them.
I asked about attachment because it helps explain why I'm talking about settings and continuity.

I've changed my view based on the ear issue

I'd stay at current nursery, view the other by all means to know if you have a comfortable back up option. However do discuss with your current nursery that if there are behavioural issues in future you would appreciate - what the incident was, and any circumstances around it, timely feedback on what they did to address it at the time, and if there is repetition an invitation to meet. If they can't do that then I would begin to consider options.

I know he was happier at one setting than the other, I had that when using a pre school plus nursery but he was tired by the time he was doing his 'nursery time' so I'm not always sure it is 'setting' every time. We noticed that when he went only to the nursery in school hols and seemed happy at the start of the week/in the mornings but by the end of the week shattered/not keen on going

Thank you @HAF1119

The ear is very relevant, and this is the third infection in seven weeks, so it is pretty bad, and he always becomes difficult when his ear is bad.

Current plan is to keep him at nursery for two days and three mornings at preschool. For whatever reason he seems more enthusiastic about preschool than nursery but I’ll keep monitoring. We are on holiday the week after this one so that will also give him some space

Sounds like quite a lot of change for him, if I'm reading right, Nursery for 5 days then new nursery for 3 days then also attending new pre-school, then new sibling then you want to change him to another Nursery before then starting School..
Can he not just go for the 3 days to the Pre-School that you mentioned he was happy to go to?

No, I’ve explained this up thread. We need childcare for two days a week when I do go back to work.

I don’t personally feel that changing nursery due to a house move is this hugely disruptive terrible thing to have happened to him, and it was fourteen months ago now.