Why does 15 hours at a private cost region of £300pcm but state provide same service, often with qualified teacher too, for free?

[StarlightDicKenzie]

Why?

are you talking about pre school?

If a provider had a qualified teacher the ratio changes to 1:13 from 1:8, also the amount of grant is a different amount too. In addition up to now state places are funded on the number of places they offer not on attendance, so could have 20 places but only 10 taken up but still be funded for 20, private would only get 10 funded, therefore state income is more stable (however this is changing now)

HTH

But they should not be charging a top up on the 15 hours free entitlment, but charging for hours outside of this.

My ds got 15 hours free in the pre school of his private school.

This is a real bug bear of mine. The state pre-schools near me only offer silly sessions (e.g. three hours in the middle of the day) which are impossible to combine with paid work. So DD has to go to a private nursery which seems frankly crap compared to the state pre-schools. Interest to hear about the funding - that makes a lot of sense.

Once dc are the term past their 3rd birthday, then FEF registered Nurseries (which is most of them) will provide 15 hours for free too.

No. Nursery.

We're moving into an area too late for the state school applications.

15hrs is term time only. Private nurseries will often 'give' you the 15hrs, but averaged out over the year and hence top ups are required. However they will often also charge top ups if their rates are higher than the state paid rate - i thought this was supposed to have been stopped, but not sure it has in reality

OctopusSting - it hasn't stopped in reality your right and doubt it will until the amount paid meets the costs.

The nurseries all seem to state they can only do full 10 days, and that the funding is a 'contribution' to a max of 6 hours per day.

Those that offer more flexible session are even more expensive per hour.

Is the nursery accredited?

If your child is eligible for FFE (term after 3rd b'day) then you shouldn't be charged at all if the nursery is accredited by its local LA, if it isnt then you would be charged, give them a call to check.

We had to register for our preschool in advance, but families who have moved into the area have still been able to get sessions. Registrations for Sept 2012 are currently being requested.

You should be able to apply for a preschool anyway, even if you haven't moved yet. They are not subject to the same application processes as schools (although I guess some might decide to apply certain aspects of it - such as having to have a local address)

Dribble - our preschool manages to run at the state funded rate - but then it is a non profit organisation.......

So how comes it meets the costs in state nurseries?

One in particular charges £250 per day, per month, per child. They have a ratio of 1-7 on average across he whole nursery and have 50 kids.

I cannot see what can possibly cost that much to justify it. Except perhaps shareholders or owners' lifestyles.

My daughter goes to a private nursery and has 15 funded hours available to her there, they are flexible i.e. I could have 3 hrs in the morning, pay for lunch and cover, then have 3 hours in the afternoon.

It can be done OctopusSting - definatley but depends on the area I think, costs vary due to location, building staffing etc etc

Legally, they should be charging you any top-ups - it should be just as free at a private nursery as at state.

However, private nurseries are profit driven. If a nursery charges £4 an hour fees, but the NEG only covers £3.50 (can't remember exactly what it is) then they come up with as many slightly dodgy ways of ensuring they still make a profit off you.

Not all private nurseries, but some.

It's not preschool. It is nursery!

Is it really coming as a shock that a private nursery is a business that wants to make as much money as possible?

We do do fundraising and the like for equipment, but the funding rates cover all staff salaries/insurances etc. They have, i would say, generally a 1-6 ratio

The state nurseries have published criteria common to them all, which are catchment based.

£4and hour?

These all seem to be charging more like £8!

Is there no local preschool AT ALL?

Starlight - because they are funded at different rates and as a service designed for full day care such as a nursery providing just the free entitlement hours means that the spaces are empty for the rest of the day, not easily filled. Thats not to say that some nurseries are not pushing there luck but nurseries are a business at the end of the day. Our owner makes a reasonable return on his investment but its not as much as people think.

I suppose the shock RM is that the profit must be so extortionate coupled with the fact that there isn't enough state provision to go round.