Why does 15 hours at a private cost region of £300pcm but state provide same service, often with qualified teacher too, for free?

[StarlightDicKenzie]

Why?

Because most private are wrap around carers, and they agree to the 15 hours free because government pay for it, but it's better for them to take full time placements than just take kids for 15 hours.
It is illegal for them to charge a top up fee unless you are there more than 15 hours or they are providing specialist services.

Octopus, we'll move 3 weeks after the deadline for applications. They are ALL oversubscribed.

But most preschools don't have the same rigorous application criteria as schools. Are you SURE you can't apply now?

starlight as a poster mentioned earlier state nurseries are funded by the number of places offered so a nursery could have a 90 place nursery but only have 30 children registered thats 60 kids worth of funding spare they also get more per hour and some LA's give additional premium payments for qualifications areas of deprivation etc, private providers are funded on the number of children on roll in my LA we get less than state provision.

This is going to change soon so that payments are brought in line and state and private providers will be funded on the number of children on roll.

If you can find a non state pre-school there is provision for providers to claim for late starters, you just get funded for the remaining weeks in the term.

Have you tried the nursery/ pre school of any independent schools?

Lisad. They insist that you can only have a percentage of your time there as the funded hours. But if those hours are not topped up, then they must be charging well into double figures per hour for the additional ones.

Private service don't have to offer the free 15 hours at all of they do t want to.

Are you sure they haven't give you the full price before taking off the free hours?

Dribble, the nonstarter nurseries are charging £60 per day which supposedly includes the funding 'discount'.

I don't work. Wtf am I supposed to find £60 per day for 3 days so she can have 15 hours of nursery education?

Quite sure Lisad. I've been through it in detail with a number of providers.

Funding is provided for 570 hours a year only

Generally, state pre-schools are only open for these 570 hours and they exist to provide pre-school education to 3 and 4 year olds.

Private nurseries are there to provide care for children for an entire working day and have to provide the infrastructure necessary for this.
So for instance, even if you could bring a packed lunch, a private nursery still has to provide a cook to make meals for the children. Even if you only want to be there three hours a day, they still need to be open from 8 til 6. This is only cost effective if enough of the children are contributing to these costs.

The government funding rates are not enough to cover the costs in a private nurseries. If nurseries are charging back door top up charges, it's to cover costs not bolster profits.

Atworknotworking - that's all changed already (in my local authority, but I also presumed it was nationally). State pre-schools are now paid per child, per hour they attend, not on the number of places they offer. If a child attends two settings, then the 15 hours of funding is split proportionally between those two settings. The two settings then work out whether the the amount of money they receive from the funding covers the number of hours that the child attends. If it doesn't, then either (or both) setting issues an invoice to the parents to make up the shortfall.

Might be worth doing a ring around after Easter because often places are offered and people move or decide not to take it.
Have you called LA because I think there is a second date for late applications.

So you do not need anything other than the 15 hours free entitlement, so have you looked at private pre-school (were known as playgroups) set ups, as i said they can apply for late grant for new starts, are they all full too?

For what its worth we are not allowed to refuse a place to a parent who requests a free hours only place should we have space, however we only have to be seen to offer one place on this basis. I agree its not fair or right but its badly thought out government policy not nurseries causing the problems.

60 per day? That is steep, I pay 40 pounds a day (8-6) before the discount. That said the grant isnt much, dd went to a non-profit preschool and i was on the parents committee, finances used to be tight.

Why not register for school nurseries and preschools in case a child leaves and a place comes up? I think you can use your fifteen hours at accredited CMs too

Littlefish thanks thats interesting re the provider split that definately hasn't happened in my LA they automatically pay the state provider the FFE, do you know if this is going to happen accross the board?

I believe it will atworknotworking but local authorities we given time to consult and work it out. In ours it was delayed as it meant finacial suicide for the only 2 state nurseries.

Thanks dribble i can imagine a few of our local ones will find things pretty tough too.

I'll see if I can find out atwork. It might take me a couple of days. If you phone your local authority early years team, they should be able to help too.

It is hitting LA nurseries hard unfortunately. We always have low numbers in the Autumn term but are full by the Spring term. However, our overheads are almost the same in every term.

Same for the private nurseries littlefish - blooming one intake a year to school causes us to be half empty in Autumn and packed in the spring, but we can't let staff go/take on due to continuity. Its madness!

I agree. It's a great challenge to balance the books.

Thanks littlefish
Yep its a mass exodus once a year then heaving again in the spring, I find myself looking at dates of birth before we take any newbies to try and spread things out a bit lol

OP Sorry we have hijacked your thread, as you can tell the free entitlement is a big issue for parents and providers alike. I hope you get it sorted, i agree that a call to the early years department of new area might be able to help.

I agree with with private playgroup suggestion. There are a few in my area running in church halls, community centre etc. they run in 3 hour sessions and term time only.

Day nurseries are not suitable for the OP at all. I appreciate I can claim the 15 hour entitlement even though I work full time. I need wrap around care and I want a place that provides cooked lunch and tea. If we aren't allow to 'top up', it's very very unfair to working parents.