Anyone else feeling sick waiting to see what the PIP cuts will be?

[Somethingthecatdraggedin7]

Wondering if I will still be able to pay for the numerous services and things my disabilities necessitate.
I think, given I have such severe issues, that I may be one of the “lucky” ones as from what I have read so far I would still have enough pip points plus I am older and have stage 4 cancer (separate to my other significant disability) but who knows.
Even if I escape the cull I am sad and scared for others who may lose their award.

With respect, I don’t think they are targeting people with disabilities because they are weak. The number of claims has rocketed disproportionately to all the other services you mention that we pay for, and it just isn’t sustainable for the economy.

I agree @PhilippaGeorgiou if the government want to essentially end disability benefits, then maybe it should all go - every man for himself? I also get a bit sick of paying for schools etc out of my taxes when I'm childless. Also state pensions when I'm not going to get one myself 😅
They could've picked any one of these, end the triple lock, make state pensions means tested, but no it's discrimination of disabled people. It is picking on the weakest.
Hope in time these protests get bigger.
(Sorry about my grammar)

@ParsnipPuree You could perhaps see state pensions in the same way, unsustainable.

I don’t think thats the issue here, it isn’t right wing women siding against other women. It’s people who aren’t entitled to anything questioning why we have a ballooning sickness problem and how it will be affordable. Sometimes it just does come down to limited resources and asking how to ration them fairly. I imagine there are a fair few people who are left wing who are also raising an eyebrow at the sheer scale of spending here. You can’t magic money up from nowhere. It’s not ideological, the maths is just not mathsing.

It would make more sense to ask why claims have shot up and why the number of people who are affected enough by a disability to get PIP has increased, then take steps to resolve the solvable root issues and mitigate the unsolvable ones.

The number of kids getting EHCPs has also gone up. I would not be surprised if the two are linked.

I suspect, but cannot prove, that the following factors contribute:

• Very premature babies can be saved and will live with disabilities. Previously, these babies died.
• The same, for people of all ages with serious disabilities who previously would have been beyond medical help.
• The classroom and wider world is full of moving backlit images, where previously those images were dark and still. I can't wait for a bus without standing next to a huge backlit screen that cycles through a series of adverts. Teachers give animated slideshows when previously they'd write on the board. This makes life harder for neurodivergent people. A ban on outdoor advertising would stop the worst of this information overload and has already been achieved in some other countries.
• Changes in parenting practices, including the use of screens as electronic nannies and the slow disappearance of groups like Guides, mean that kids aren't practicing their going outside and meeting others skills at the age range that they need to practice it. I suspect that a lot of social anxiety in adulthood would be prevented if kids learned to socialise more.
• Schools treat kids like prisoners with "zero tolerance" bullshit about trivialities like uniforms, whilst denying them the right to take a jumper off without asking first and failing to protect the children from sexual violence. This teaches kids that they have no autonomy even over their own bodies and are powerless to make their own lives better and safer. Having autonomy and knowing that you have it so that you know you can make choices to improve your situation is the foundation upon which mental resilience is built.

I do see State pensions that way, and I think the previous Govt agrees because they mandated workplace pensions, as in the "We're all in!" adverts, and that will be to allow the abolition of the Triple Lock later on, not to benefit the working class.

https://shop.disabilityrightsuk.org/products/winning-your-benefit-appeal-what-you-need-to-know-5th-edition

I don't know how effective this guide is, but I've just ordered one because claiming is a minefield and my friend helped me with my application last time.
Ps. It's not 'only' for children facing poverty as the name suggests. (CPAG).

This.

I don't use the library but I pay council tax for it. I don't have kids but I pay for schools through taxation. I don't use adult social care (yet) but I pay for it. My house has never caught fire, yet I pay for the fire service. I am lucky enough to own my home (one of the rare autistics who does) but I pay for housing benefits through my taxes.

People pick on the disabled because they think "I'm not disabled, it will never happen to me".

@selffellatingouroborosofhate I honestly do not think most people think that. I think a lot of people don’t agree that some things should be funded by benefits (which may or may not be right). But I think it’s very, very rare to find someone who feels there should be no support for people with very severe disabilities, or who would say (if given a moment to consider it) that they believe that could never affect them or someone in their family.

I think people have very misguided views on the rates of fraud (speaking even as someone who does believe they’re higher than reported, based on my own extensive experience within disability groups as a disabled person), and often mistakenly believe it’s way, way higher than it actually is. And stratospherically higher than the reported rates.

And then I think there are ideological differences regarding who should receive benefits and what benefits should pay for. Which is not necessarily unreasonable to discuss as such, though obviously very sensitive and difficult. But it’s not the same as just targeting disabled people in general and thinking “oh, it can never happen to me!” I really think that only applies to the tiniest fraction of horrible people.

(Just to be clear, I am not calling anyone on this thread a horrible person! I’m speaking generally, with respect to people who may in fact be deliberately attacking people with disabilities.)

You assume correctly, unfortunately.

Pre-empting the benefit-bashers saying "see, you can buy books on how to game the system":
(1) Skilfully navigating the system so that you don't lose out because you didn't know how the forms work is no more "gaming" the system than taking past papers to prepare for an exam is. You coach exam candidates in how to read the paper and how to maximise the marks you get by answering the easiest questions first, yet no one considers this to be cheating, because it isn't.
(2) Disability rights charities supporting disabled people in navigating the PIP and DLA forms and processes is no different from Shelter supporting homeless people through statutory homelessness or Rights Of Women supporting women through the legal aspects of DV, divorce, custody battles, etc.

And then I think there are ideological differences regarding who should receive benefits and what benefits should pay for. Which is not necessarily unreasonable to discuss as such, though obviously very sensitive and difficult.

So this hypothetical question will extend to all benefits, I take it, not just disability benefits.

We've also seen on this thread how people with no experience of a particular condition grossly underestimate its impact on someone's life and then brand the resulting care need as "beauty appointments".

An experiment: tape the fingers of your dominant hand together and to some ice lolly sticks when you first wake up in the morning and don't take the tape and sticks off until you go to bed. No exceptions, not even for showering.

You will find out quickly why the extra expense of an electric toothbrush is essential for me during flare-ups, why I pay for extra scale and polishes (cannot floss), and why I sometimes have to pay someone else to wash my hair. You will also find within the week that transferring tasks to the other hand causes it to develop wrist tendonitis.

I think it should, personally. We should have a full societal discussion of how to structure the entire welfare state. It’s an extreme divergence from the topic so I won’t go too far down this path, but I personally would lean much more towards a UBI model with some top ups for disability (administered directly through health professionals), and elimination of the DWP entirely. Again, though, not trying to derail! I wish we could have a more genuinely open public consultation that was creative rather than punitive and shame based.

…um, I actually wouldn’t be able to do this experiment because my disabilities are too severe and would preclude it.

And indeed all public spending. I look forward to getting the schools bit of my taxes back.

Sorry, I should have made it clear that that invitation was for the people who think that there are too many PIP claimants.

Ok, fair enough@verysmellyjelly. Maybe it is a discussion for another thread.

Oh, okay that makes more sense! I agree with you that from a disabled POV it’s utterly ridiculous for people to say without understanding that PIP shouldn’t be used for an electric toothbrush or assistance with hair washing, etc. In fact I virtually never see anyone describe an expense I think is unreasonable, not least because PIP is my only income so anything I buy, I buy with PIP, including anything frivolous! It’s not that I am personally thinking it should only be used for A and not for B, so much as I can see why people who don’t have much experience or insight might have that belief. I do think there are major issues around it (especially the slippery slope of it seeming to give quarter to something like a voucher scheme in the future), but I also generally favour discussion and debate even on controversial things.

That’s not to say I am thinking, “That disabled person shouldn’t be in the hairdresser’s!”, though. (Actually a moot point as I haven’t been to a hairdresser in about twenty years, but you know what I mean.)

Thanks for listening to my POV on this thread, I appreciate it. On some threads people have just kind of yelled at me and assumed I want bad outcomes for other disabled people, but I really, really don’t. Maybe I haven’t expressed myself well on other threads, but I’m autistic and I tend to get very focused on trying to have a “fair” debate which maybe isn’t helpful. Anyway, I appreciate how people have listened in this thread and let me respond without being super angry even if I have not expressed myself perfectly. I genuinely only want the best for disabled people. I am scared that society will collapse or that the welfare State will lose all buy in from voters in future. On other thread some of my posts have been taken to mean I want to be “one of the good ones” (and not to care about other disabled people), but while my view is complex, that’s sincerely not the case.

Yeah, right

How am I re writing history?

Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992

Status:
This is the original version (as it was originally enacted).
72The care component
(1)Subject to the provisions of this Act, a person shall be entitled to the care component of a disability living allowance for any period throughout which—
(a)he is so severely disabled physically or mentally that—
(i)he requires in connection with his bodily functions attention from another person for a significant portion of the day (whether during a single period or a number of periods); or
(ii)he cannot prepare a cooked main meal for himself if he has the ingredients; or
(b)he is so severely disabled physically or mentally that, by day, he requires from another person—
(i)frequent attention throughout the day in connection with his bodily functions; or
(ii)continual supervision throughout the day in order to avoid substantial danger to himself or others; or
(c)he is so severely disabled physically or mentally that, at night,—
(i)he requires from another person prolonged or repeated attention in connection with his bodily functions; or
(ii)in order to avoid substantial danger to himself or others he requires another person to be awake for a prolonged period or at frequent intervals for the purpose of watching over him.

You are being disingenuous. Claims for state pension are at an all time high - £138 billion, more than double the bill for health and disability benefits. There's £8billion spent on free childcare, before 2017 that was zero. Disability fraud is rated at zero by the DWP (and I don't want to hear about how that's not right - the DWP says it is, and you can't pick and choose your evidence by saying they are wrong) whilst "erroneous claims by MP's" (what most people call fraud) is not zero and they have little excuse given what they earn.

I agree that more people with health conditions should be in work. Tell employers that. Fix the health service so that their health is optimised. Get the work opportunities for people with health conditions sorted first, then you have a circumstance in which you can lecture people about their responsibilities. Work is good for people if they are able to work - the facts and figures prove that. There is absolutely no point in a discussion that says taking away health related conditions for "the less severe" is sensible unless you actually do give them options for better health and employment that won't disappear the first time they take a sick day.

@selffellatingouroborosofhate An experiment: tape the fingers of your dominant hand together and to some ice lolly sticks when you first wake up in the morning and don't take the tape and sticks off until you go to bed. No exceptions, not even for showering.
Due to my disability I had a fall last year and severed the tip of my left index finger. I was told to wait for an ambulance (disabled, live alone, no help). Cue seven hour wait for an ambulance (I am 30 minutes away from the hospital), followed by 13 hours in A&E. Finger in splint and the next day informed that surgery would be ten days time. I subsequently found that the NHS standard is that the surgery should have been done on the same day as the injury. Several more weeks in splint, long story short it is now several months later, I have to wear splints to prevent it getting worse (due to the hospital errors) and it is useless. Just one finger on my non-dominant hand. And it is astonishing the number of things that I now cannot do on top of the list I already had. And all because of one single duff finger.

”Claims for state pension are at an all time high”

Well yes, if you reach retirement age and you’ve paid NI contributions for 30 years+ you’ll obviously be claiming state pension. It’s not something people suddenly decide they’re going to claim out of the blue.