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October is ADHD Awareness Month

87 replies

BertieBotts · 13/10/2015 21:38

So I thought I'd make a little landing pad for any MNers who suspect themselves or are curious about ADHD. We also have a lovely Neurodiversity support thread, which tends to run much better long term (ADHDers tending to not be fantastic at remembering to post on such a thread Blush)

If you don't like reading long threads, there is a brilliant video here which (attempts to) explain in one minute what adult ADHD looks like, because it's so different from the stereotypes that we often have in mind about ADHD. vimeo.com/141104970. You can skip the rest of my OP Wink

For those who prefer reading I'll try to explain some of the main symptoms and/or signs and how it differs. As the guy in the video says, you don't need to have all of the signs to have ADHD, and nobody does.

There are thought to be three main areas where ADHD (ADD is an older name but they are the same thing) affects people: Impulsivity, Inattention and Hyperactivity.

Impulsivity (caused by ADHD) in adults often looks like this:

  • Difficulty managing money
  • Often interrupting or interjecting into conversations inappropriately
  • Emotional disregulation - being quicker to anger, upset, or excite than other people generally.
  • History of unsuitable relationships or trouble holding down a relationship
  • Jumping around in conversation leaving others confused
  • Lots of half finished projects or tasks - feeling like you're always starting things but never accomplish much.
  • History of many different jobs, education directions or hobbies.
  • A general dislike or disdain for the idea of routines and schedules
  • And of course the obvious - being generally impulsive, easily distracted and starting lots of activities at the last minute. (But this is not the only or a necessary sign)

Inattention caused by ADHD in adults looks like:

  • Time blindness - always being late for things and/or losing track of time.
  • Disorganisation, messiness, general sense of chaos despite attempts to organise.
  • Finding it difficult to stick to plans or goals and not really knowing why
  • Reporting less success than other people using organisational aids such as calendars, to-do lists, reminders and diaries.
  • Forgetfulness - sometimes forgetting entire conversations, forgetting an important task repeatedly or forgetting things which you do regularly.
  • Contrary to (but coexistent with) the impulsive point, a tendency to do nothing and/or procrastinate when you don't have a set timetable or schedule.
  • Chronic procrastination - to the point of missing or underperforming at things which are important to you
  • Difficulty focusing, especially if a task is repetitive or long, but with a tendency to focus for long times at the expense of all else sometimes.
  • Less care taken while driving leading to minor accidents or detours.
  • Difficulty keeping in touch with friends or in the inner circle of friendship groups, especially as you age and lose regular connections such as school, university or work.

Hyperactivity in ADHD adults is the one which looks LEAST like expectations. It's things like:

  • Talking a LOT and/or very fast
  • Chatterbox brain - having 100 thoughts whirling around at once all the time
  • Always needing to be "busy"
  • Fidgeting and fiddling - finger tapping, foot tapping, swinging legs in a chair, chewing things, smoking, fiddling with hair, picking spots/scabs
  • Difficulty falling asleep at night
  • Addictive behaviour or history of - abuse of drugs or alcohol, smoking, caffeine addiction/dependency, risky sexual behaviour, internet/video game addiction, shopping or gambling addiction, exercise addiction, etc etc.
  • Unexpected results from mild stimulants and depressants - usually swapped. Medicine with a side effect of drowsiness wakes you up and stimulants have little effect or make you feel productive and/or sleepy. (Sometimes causes the addictive behaviour as an attempt to self medicate)

And some general correlations:

  • Having dyslexia or another related disorder (ADHD is often comorbid with other disorders, and dyslexia is the most likely to have been diagnosed in the UK if you were at school in the 80s-00s)
  • Sensory seeking or avoidant behaviour - disliking textures of certain clothes or foods, finding loud noise or bright light difficult.
  • Teenage pregnancy (and by association, being born to a mother who experienced this even if you weren't that baby from that pregnancy.)
  • Having a close relative, including a child, who also displays signs or symptoms of ADHD.
  • Having tried countless self help books but none have been in the slightest bit effective.

As a child:

  • You might have been described as a "daydreamer" or were often being told off for chatting when you shouldn't have been.
  • You tended to produce work - especially homework and coursework - which was much lower than the standard expected or the level you worked at in class, and teachers often expressed a sense that you "weren't trying hard enough".

Adults (especially women, and some girls) do NOT tend to:

  • Get up and walk out of meetings when you are expected to be still
  • Have a history of violent behaviour
  • Run around acting without any inhibition at all
  • Do something to the extreme or not at all

These are ADHD behaviours but more often seen in boys and men.

Well, this ended up really long Blush Anyway, jump in! Don't be shy! :)

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 13/10/2015 21:42

Argh I forgot a correlation - HIGH levels of depression and anxiety often caused by a sense of not being able to hold everything together.

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 13/10/2015 21:55

So what next....

There's a great book called You Mean I'm Not Lazy, Stupid or Crazy?

A website called Magazine [[http://www.additudemag.com/]] is fantastic and has lots of articles based on women and adults rather than just children. It's horribly laid out but very good.

A UK organisation called LANC - for diagnosis on NHS (if you are lucky enough to be near one of their centres) or just to contact with concerns/for information as they are one of the leading campaigning bodies for acceptance and awareness of ADHD (and currently adult ADHD) in the UK. As an aside if you look at their history page, you'll see that NO, it's VERY unlikely that you would have been diagnosed with ADHD at school even if you only left school very recently because it's only really been over the last five or six years that it has been recognised widely.

Look up Dr. Russell Barkley. He has loads of talks on youtube which are fantastic and he also has a book out which I am yet to read (but plan to). The talks are long but so worth it - download the audio as a podcast if you don't want to sit and watch one.

You can also google for local specialists - private - who will charge but it might be worth speaking to one if you're interested even if you don't want to seek a diagnosis with one at first.

OP posts:
Minisoksmakehardwork · 21/10/2015 07:31

I'm properly fucked then! Ds1 is being looked at for adhd. And the more we travel down that path, the more I look at those boxes and go 'check, check, check'. Having a friend who was ver recently told she has a diagnosis of high functioning autism, I'm beginning to wonder whether knowing either way would help me or not.

BertieBotts · 21/10/2015 13:49

It's funny, isn't it? You might be somewhat at an advantage (ha!) having a child go through the process in that you've got access there to professionals. Might be worth asking them what they think if an appropriate moment comes up.

OP posts:
ToadsJustFellFromTheSky · 22/10/2015 22:07

Slightly OT here, but can some disorders cross over? I have a diagnosis of ASD but I also tick a lot of boxes on that list.

Is it possible to have both ASD and ADHD?

ToadsJustFellFromTheSky · 22/10/2015 22:10

Just had a quick Google and it seems it's not unusual for people to have both ADHD and ASD. The NAS even has some info on ADHD here

Minisoksmakehardwork · 23/10/2015 08:22

Lol! I'm still waiting to hear from the ADHD nurse. My dad also ticks an awful lot of boxes. But of course, back in his day 'ADHD didn't exist'.

Interestingly I've been looking at those links you posted and one mentioned venlafaxine as a treatment. I've been put on that for pnd and i feel so much different (better) than I have done in such a long time. None of the other tablets I tried really helped more than a few months with the pnd. And everything else was a complete 'mare.

BertieBotts · 23/10/2015 19:17

Yep. I almost put ASD and SPD into the bit about dyslexia because these seem the most common, but I didn't want to put people off if they hadn't heard of them. And I never quite know what to call these kinds of things, mental health isn't right, special needs doesn't sound right either and there isn't much else as a catch all. So sorry for not mentioning it properly.

Minisoks, that's really interesting.

OP posts:
PolterGoose · 23/10/2015 21:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ToadsJustFellFromTheSky · 23/10/2015 22:47

I had never even considered ADHD being a possibility until now either. I tick a lot of boxes on that list but I might be looking too much into it.

BertieBotts · 23/10/2015 22:52

Okay, well it's also important to be aware that there IS a fairly big overlap between ASD and ADHD in terms of firstly executive functioning (any kind of future planning and sequencing) - though I'm not 100% on how EF works with ASD - and also with the kind of "feeling out of sync" thing.

It's definitely possible (and not hugely unlikely) to have both but it might also be that they sometimes look similar. If that makes sense?

Minisoks, you might put quotes around that, but it literally didn't exist as a condition in the UK until 2000. www.lanc.org.uk/about-us-adhd-asd-assessment/our-history/

The "nice" thing about ADHD is that it is (supposedly) pretty manageable with medication and scaffolding to replace the brain functions which aren't working correctly. I'm working on the second one but I don't have the first which apparently makes everything much more precarious.

OP posts:
PolterGoose · 24/10/2015 09:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertieBotts · 24/10/2015 10:03

Yes, for sure. :)

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Minisoksmakehardwork · 24/10/2015 14:49

You are right Bertie. I didn't realise it was such a recent discovery though. Perhaps that is why so many people struggle with it being real today. But it's the same as many conditions which didn't exist in Ye olden days. I guess we'd have been shuffled off into an asylum...

I have made an appointment with my GP to discuss the possibility after the dc have gone back to school. I'm not looking forward to this week even though I've got my plans in triplicate!! I'm sure something will go horribly wrong.

lborgia · 26/10/2015 22:34

Bertie - I just saw your link on the other post - asking for help on overwhelming housework. .I didn't even wait for the following posts just ran over here. .. I'm going for full psych assessment for adult adhd in about 2 weeks. Where I live private health is very common and I don't think it's a coincidence that it's so easy to access such things - if you have the money.

Someone mentioned the concept to me about a month ago and I went to the bookshop and got Russell Barkley's book - and inhaled it in one sitting. OMG, really didn't know whether to laugh or cry. He has included an appendix of 92 potential symptoms. I ticked about 86... Went straight to the lovely gp ams explained some examples and she made me a referral. She has two other 40 something patients who have just been diagnosed and she thought it was def worth doing.

Thank you so much for starting the thread! I did actually ask a vague question in General Health .. several mns thought they probably were based on their children.

Funny to read what women don't do - in hind sight DF def had it and couldn't sit for 10 minutes.

Sorry, super waffly... Did you say you're not taking meds?

lborgia · 26/10/2015 22:42

Oh, and Dr Barkley describes it as an issue with executive functioning Grin . I'm having trouble finding examples of adults and their experiences of turnaround post diagnosis. I'm desperate for tablets to be the answer but I know they rarely fix everything.

Minisok I was re reading the details on biochemistry of it all last night and suddenly registered that venlafaxine works similarly and remembered that it worked so well for me when I had pnd.. in some ways that I haven't experienced since changing anti ds. Spooky seeing it written by someone else a day later.

I really can't wait to see if this can change my life. And equally don't know how the hell I'll feel if it doesn't. Confused

BertieBotts · 26/10/2015 22:49

Hi Iborgia :)

I didn't see your thread - feel free to put a link over if you want. Honestly I've done a few chat/support threads over the year, but they always peter out. Probably because of the very nature of ADHD (or forgetfulness/disorganisation in general :)). I have huge respect for Barkley - he's just brilliant at explaining the very bones of what ADHD is and he has such an astute understanding of it. I want to buy the book but it's expensive so I'm waiting. Maybe I'll get it for Christmas.

I'm not on medication because I don't have a formal diagnosis. I'm on a waiting list and should get an appointment some time in January. But the thread is based on my research and reading, not on myself.

I can't find the article I wanted to post - about how the medical profession has a long history of considering men's bodies and behaviours as "the norm" against which to judge women's (see the whole separate section in hospitals and other places for "women's health" whereas men have "urinary tract health" - which is a place we don't visit, because our gynaecologists cover that area. Confused) But here's a nicely written (I found it brought up a lot of emotions for me) article about ADHD in women. www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/04/adhd-is-different-for-women/381158/

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 26/10/2015 23:01

YY to the executive functioning stuff, I've listened to several of his talks on youtube (less lightbulb, more floodlight moment!) but I know that not all practitioners agree with him here (though it makes FAR more sense than anything anyone else says) so I didn't want to put it in the OP. The youtube talks have actual practical tips, although they are aimed at parents or teachers of ADHD kids, not adults with ADHD themselves.

I've noticed since learning about EF - I got a brain training app, and the games which I find the hardest are those which involve executive functioning. I can do very fast logic and maths but as soon as it requires me to hold one thing in mind while calculating another, I'm lost. Very weird. And I wouldn't have noticed that pattern before. But I've always struggled with things like that. It's probably why I can't (computer) code, despite attempting to learn it several times.

Have you read "So I'm not lazy, stupid or crazy"? That's been around a while so might be at your local library if you don't want to buy. I don't find the theory as good as Barkley but it's written by two women with ADHD and I find it better on the emotional side. They talk about the diagnosis/discovery process being a bit like the seven stages of grief, and the one where you hope that diagnosis/medication/the right therapist/understanding yourself will fix everything is the bargaining stage. You also have to process everything you've lost, and come to terms with the fact that there will always be things which are difficult for you, which can be hard going. You've probably already gone through denial and anger/guilt (in ADHD and other neurodevelopmental conditions it's anger at yourself for being "broken" or anger at others for never noticing). Like grief it can cycle or loop back and there's not really one way that everyone reacts but it can be useful to know that it's normal to have these feelings and that it's a process and you will (hopefully!) come out the other side okay.

This also might be worth a look:

The first 100 days

OP posts:
lborgia · 26/10/2015 23:05

No, don't need to link, but did see your further posts on the other thread and think you"get" so much. Well done for clicking through on shiny sinks - that made me laugh - as I didn't, being defeated by the dishes.

Also yy to the medical male view - had a feminist whinge on another thread about patriarchal medicine. That's not even a thing, but it's the only way I can describe the "well you shouldn't feel like that because. ." Well add a shed load of sex hormones to that drug/illness/side effect and see what happens. .

I'm happy to scan/send you some bits of the book if you would like. I can start with contents and you can pick which 100 pages look the most useful Smile

BertieBotts · 26/10/2015 23:13

Ah thanks, that's a lovely offer :) But I've had a look at the contents on amazon and I really want to buy it. Would just be frustrating to have parts of it and it would be highly illegal to ask you to scan all of it Grin

OP posts:
lborgia · 26/10/2015 23:16

Just seen your last post - I was shaking talking to the gp, and now keep having omg moments. Am currently trying really hard not to be angry that no one noticed when I was a child - top of the class in every single subject until I hit about 15 - and memory/winging it wasn't enough. Couldn't revise/do homework to save my life, and came out with 10 C grade o levels. No one thought this weird? Had a very successful career but changes jobs every 2 years before the paperwork imploded. And finely bailed and went into very very prescribed part time jobs where I wasn't required to juggle millions of projects at once. I reckon now the reason I worked 60 hour weeks was to merely manage. People facing, no problem, subsequent emails, notes etc, nightmare.

I must stop, you must be going to sleep soon and I'm home with bug and pukey child.

Thank you Flowers

BertieBotts · 27/10/2015 00:04

Me too! I was a straight A/top level student until GCSE and then I came out with a handful of Bs and Cs with three As (Graphics, Maths and Citizenship which wasn't even a real subject.) Bearing in mind this was after they introduced A, and if you looked at my previous education history, I should have been B/A/A territory, not mostly Bs and Cs. I totally failed one of the English exams because I just procrastinated so much in the actual exam Confused Nobody thought it was weird, perhaps because I was into art so the top grades didn't matter as much, and they were still pretty good. So then I did a Graphics course at a local college, spent the entire two years having a combination of pep talks and being shouted at/guilt tripped by the teachers who were baffled because I had the potential but it looked like I couldn't be bothered to do the work. I could - I LOVED the work. I couldn't get it sorted but I didn't know why at the time. Ended up getting downgraded at the end hastily to a lower qualification because I didn't look like I was going to pass (the final project was just insurmountable to me in terms of organisation. I really, really, did try my hardest. One of the teachers told me he was so frustrated by me he'd like to have been allowed to beat me. Confused)

I'd already done uni application before this, so I went to interviews, etc (you have to interview for art courses). Was really excited about uni but of course didn't have the grades. So did A Levels to get the points. Picked subjects I liked the sound of - Business Studies, Psychology, Philosophy and Media. I dropped out after one year with grades which spelled BED (I'd dropped Business Studies almost immediately because the teacher annoyed me, I was so jaded by education at this point, despite the fact I loved it, still love it, and miss it terribly.) Worked full time in a tiny graphics studio for a few months, then became pregnant with my DS, at 19. I didn't know until VERY recently how high the teenage pregnancy stats are for ADHD and was absolutely floored when I found out. Because (like the grades) it wasn't supposed to happen to somebody like me.

Again I have coasted since then. I left DS' father because he was emotionally abusive and talked my way into university without having to do an access course. Studied social policy with the aim of working somewhere in the region of social work, but really, I just liked the fact that I had something to do for the next six years. Got together with now DH and we were skint so I got a job in a shop. Had a great time doing uni (lots of support due to being a mature student) and shop work and then DH got a job abroad and I was skating in and out of depression, so that messed everything up - I panicked over an exam and DH advised me HIS way of dealing with it which was to miss the exam and sit the resit. This wasn't right for me - I should have taken it and then done the resit if I failed, but I didn't, and I missed the resit because I was visiting DH and totally forgot that it was on the same date. Then I decided to move over, so I quit and talked my way onto ANOTHER course (lol!) which is supposed to be a postgrad, though it isn't necessarily, just that most people do it after university. So I'm now a qualified English teacher and I teach English as a foreign language, and I love it - except the planning :o But actually it's fine - because I can get away with turning up with nothing and teach a mediocre lesson, and then every now and again I go mad and plan an entire months' worth of lessons in one go and make something really creative and amazing. But it's weird, because most people I meet assume I've been to university and if it comes up that I didn't even finish school to university entry level, then I feel really awkward. I know that I could do a degree and I'd love to go back one day but we can't afford that much unpaid time at the moment.

I assumed for a while that the grades thing was due to being clever but lazy and coasting on my ability until the difficulty outranked my ability, but I don't think it was - the pattern is, actually, that when I started having to organise myself everything just fell apart but nobody really noticed this because I was still performing well in class and in exams - well, aside from essay exams, which I didn't learn how to do until university, because I never planned essays at home, so I had no clue that you were supposed to plan them in exams, or how.

Yes I do need to go to bed, it's nearly just gone 1am in Germany where I live Blush I'm supposed to be going to bed strictly at 10.30 because it helps me wake up in the mornings, which I'm rubbish at. But oh well. No classes tomorrow so I can relax a bit.

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 27/10/2015 00:14

Oh, and the English teaching course was my most successful one so far, and I think it's because it was so short - only 13 weeks and SUPER intense, and it just held my focus all the way through. Likewise, I did brilliantly at uni, apart from the exam - which I kick myself for - because I had a baby so I had NO leeway and couldn't procrastinate over the essays, I had to be really strict with it.

OP posts:
lborgia · 27/10/2015 02:08

Oh my goodness, so many yy moments in that post. .I blagged my way into my degree too! The Book says that often bright children can wing it and get to a certain level without anyone realising there's a learning difficulty. I won't say it anywhere in RL but I am incredibly bright and it's got me everywhere I've needed to get but eventually it catches up with you.

DH is very helpful except he wants us to stay up late. . I'm going to have to persevere with the sleep. Makes a huge difference.

Minisoksmakehardwork · 27/10/2015 02:57

Oh Lordy! Reading your education/ school experiences is so like you were me!!

I started secondary school as a straight A student, dropping grades through the years until I finally failed a levels. I loved the subjects I studied, just couldn't get my thoughts coherently onto paper, they flew from one thing to another and as for revising....

I've always blamed it on being bullied - for enjoying school, for needing to be first to class, for wanting to please my teachers (the latter 2 are my ds1 to a tee).

I didn't go to uni. I decided I wouldn't survive the experience. And While I have regrets, I know it was the right decision. I struggled enough when I got my first proper job. The lower grades come easy but frustrate me because there's no challenge. But the higher grades required a level of organisation I just can't manage. I'm a sahm now and there are so many half started projects I can think of. I'll be doing housework and get distracted. Come back and realise I didn't even finish getting washing out of the dryer Blush

I'm loving all these links and things to read. Have made a list!

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