Zoomchat with David Baddiel about new book 'Jews Don't Count'

[JuliaMumsnet]

Hello

We’re delighted to announce a Mumsnet Zoomchat with critically acclaimed comedian, author of children's and adult's books, screenwriter and TV presenter David Baddiel.

If you'd like to hear from one of the UK's most successful comedians, discuss how anti-Semitism manifests in progressive politics, argue about the merits of the 4-4-2 formation, or just shout 'that's your mum that is', now’s your chance to grab one of our free places.

We’ll be particularly focusing on David’s recent short book which looks at how (in the words of the dust jacket) 'identity politics has failed one particular identity... those who think of themselves as on the right side of history have often ignored the history of anti-Semitism'.

David will be chatting with Mumsnet HQ and answering your questions on Wednesday 28 April at 8pm, and you can book your place now by registering here.

Please note 1 If you join the Zoom chat, your camera will be turned off by default. Your screen name may be visible if we ask you to read your question out ‘live’, so consider whether you’re happy to use your RL name or want to use your MN posting name, or something else entirely.

Please note 2 We can only take questions from Zoomchat attendees on the night - please don’t use this thread to ask questions in advance as we can’t promise we’ll be able to put them forwards.

Register for free (only 100 places are available) here

Thanks
MNHQ

Please say a big thank you to David Baddiel. It was a fascinating discussion and he explains things so well with the anecdotes and examples he gave. I will be buying the book too.

It's on Audible. 👍

Brilliant talk. He was so articulate and sensible. I had nothing intelligent to add, other than objecting to the idea of adding onion and cheese to matzo brie!

@truelywonder if you feel comfortable doing so, you could pm me if you'd like to discuss whatever the subject is. I understand your reluctance to raise it publicly.

No worries if not, obviously.

That was excellent, thanks.

I listening to it now. The audiobook is on Scribd.

Great session. Was listening with my 15 yr old and he had lots of questions about it. Please thank David again for his time.

That was great, and thanks for asking my lighthearted question at the end!

I definitely recommend the book for those who haven’t read it yet.

It was a great conversation, thank you! It looked like it was recorded. Does anyone know whether it will be accessible? I'd love friends and family to be able to get to watch too.

Matzo brei! Not matzo brie. Obviously.

@Misshapencha0s

Oh looks like there's always two now...just because the etymology of a word can be defined as such does not mean it does not have pejorative connotations. It is offensive to many people. I suggest you read David Baddiel's book.

Thanks for the suggestion, I will read the book but Jewish people are not a homogenous group - I don't have to think the same as David Baddiel. I have my own lived experience and years of related study to base my opinions on.

Brilliant then you're very experienced and well studied self will be fully aware how to take peoples feelings into account.

Not to mention recognising the racism some posters have experienced. Whilst people tell them they are not antisemitic but stating facts.

Jewish people are not a homogeneous group

That’s very true. No minority is a homogeneous group. There does seem to be more of an acceptance that black, Asian, Middle Eastern minority groups are subject to a great deal of racism though and that Jews are just getting in on the racism thing. There seems to be a far greater reluctance to believe/accept that Jews can and are subject to a great deal of racism. Whether your background is Sephardi, Ashkenazi and whether your ancestors are from Spain, Iran, Morocco, Lithuania, Belarus or wherever you are still likely to find the Y word offensive, have assumptions made about you regarding wealth, power, honesty, lifestyle and meanness. We are not homogeneous just as black people are not homogeneous but antisemitism and racism are endemic in our society and affect both minorities. We apparently aren’t the right sort of minority though and instead of people taking what we say seriously, they are likely to double down and label us over-sensitive and too reactive/stroppy when we discuss our experiences of antisemitic abuse.

Solidarity to all my fellow Jewish MNers.

I have to say though, and I apologise if this comes across as minimising because it's certainly not my intention, but MN is just really terrible with racism of any description.

I'm both Jewish and biracial and the anti-black racism on this forum is just overwhelming, and very rarely removed or acted on unless it's blatant. MNHQ have literally said in the past that the N word is permitted as long as it's not used against someone, and I've witnessed multiple threads where they've refused to delete posts containing the N word written out in full, on the grounds that it's an educational discussion.

That's without even mentioning the constant onslaught of coded and more subtle racism, the extreme tone policing and aggression towards POC posters, the goadyness, all the threads about sweet golliwogs or why Meghan Markle's a narc whore or why BLM protestors are thugs or why black actors shouldn't play Shakespeare or whinging about how anti-racism is just identity politics woke nonsense. The constant constant racism-denials.

I honestly don't know why MN is so racist or why MNHQ can't crack down. It's racism of every description and it's exhausting.

froggy. Solidarity back to black/bi-racial MNers too. I thought it was pretty telling that Black MNers felt they needed their own board so they could post without being told what to think, how they should feel and to have their own place away from the barrage of subtle and blatant racist shit coming their way. MN seems to talk the talk but either don’t fully understand and/or arent 100% committed to zero tolerance.

So many threads over the years have been disgraceful in terms of not standing up for black/mixed MNers. It’s totally baffling why it still carries on to the point there’s been a new board set up to provide a peaceful, safe area for black members.

@froggygoneacourting totally agree. Remember this awful threads attacking Patricksrum? Or people getting cross about plasters for Black or brown skin tones because there wasn't one to exactly match their 'milk bottle' legs? So much was left to stand, and so many of the posters are still around today.

@froggygoneacourting Thank you for your post and your solidarity.

I agree with you that the racism problem extends well beyond antisemitism.

Sadly, I believe that MN is a reflection of UK society rather than a particularly bad instance of it. I suspect a lot of us have, for obvious reasons, grown up in communities/areas/social circles that are far less racist and more diverse than most of the UK. It can be a bit of a shock to realise how powerful and widespread the undercurrents (often barely 'under') of racism are.

Hello

We're incredibly clear across the team at MNHQ that spelling out the 'N' word is not allowed under any circumstances, at all - no exceptions. It will always be dealt with when it's reported to us and honestly it's just not true that we would ever tell a reporter that it's OK because it's 'educational' - if you've got any links or correspondence where we've said that please share them with us because it's absolutely not our approach and we'd like to get to the bottom of it. In some very limited circumstances (eg quoting a relevant source while making a thoughtful contribution to a thread) we might edit a post to replace letters with asterisks.

Surprisingly, it's sometimes posted but not reported. We'd urge you all to please hammer the 'report' button if you ever see it because it will definitely be dealt with (and we'll follow up as appropriate with the users who use it) when we're made aware of it.

In the past we've tried setting up an automatic 'bad word' filter to catch the N word and automatically hide any posts that contain it, but (as is the way with these tools) it was picking up too many other words - but it feels like there must be a solution to this so we'll ask our tech team to have another look at that.

When you find a tech solution to delete certain offensive words can you add nuance to the list

My head exploded the other night. When I was told my argument about anti lockdown or anti vax protesters wearing the yellow star was a nuance issue.

NUANCE!

Some brilliant people on mumsnet but a good share of morons too

@RowanMumsnet - was the webinar recorded, and if so, will you be making the recording available for wider viewing?

[quote multivac]@RowanMumsnet - was the webinar recorded, and if so, will you be making the recording available for wider viewing?[/quote]
Hello

Zoomchat participation is open to all MNers but recordings are now exclusive to Premium subscribers - so if you're not a Premium subscriber already, have a look at the sign-up page here to see what's on offer.

We're incredibly clear across the team at MNHQ that spelling out the 'N' word is not allowed under any circumstances, at all - no exceptions. It will always be dealt with when it's reported to us and honestly it's just not true that we would ever tell a reporter that it's OK because it's 'educational' - if you've got any links or correspondence where we've said that please share them with us because it's absolutely not our approach and we'd like to get to the bottom of it.

This was probably three years ago, not recently. I personally received emails from MNHQ saying "we permit the use of this word if it's in a non-abusive context and we're leaving it up since it's educational."

A google search for site:www.mumsnet.com reveals there are currently 398 places where the N word appears in full on the Mumsnet site. Some are from as recent as 2020.

Glad to hear MNHQ have changed their policy.

Zoomchat participation is open to all MNers but recordings are now exclusive to Premium subscribers - so if you're not a Premium subscriber already, have a look at the sign-up page here to see what's on offer.

Ah, ok. Being first in line to give corporations free feedback and beta test your site improvements isn't quite tempting enough for a fiver a month just now; but thanks

Hi @froggygoneacourting and thanks for your comments.
We're taking a look at the Google search results and will remove any instances that we find.

We've checked correspondence on our side and we've found many reports where we've deleted racist language but can't find anything where we allow use, 'in a non-abusive context'. As we've said, please do forward anything that would help us to get to the bottom of this.

Hi @JuliaMumsnet @MichaelMumsnet @MNHQ and all posters on this thread.

I wonder if you have seen the post on another thread (about positive discrimination/racism in the workplace) that exemplifies exactly the sort of anti-semitism that David Baddiel's book tackles.

I have attempted to address the poster in the thread directly but they are clearly proud of their overt anti-semitism. In light of the discussion on this thread , I am hoping you will act on this post and indicate that this kind of anti-semitism is not OK on Mumsnet. Thank you.

www.mumsnet.com/ReportTalkPost?topicid=2724&threadid=4236171&msgid=107076351

Can you link to the actual thread