Zoomchat with David Baddiel about new book 'Jews Don't Count'

[JuliaMumsnet]

Hello

We’re delighted to announce a Mumsnet Zoomchat with critically acclaimed comedian, author of children's and adult's books, screenwriter and TV presenter David Baddiel.

If you'd like to hear from one of the UK's most successful comedians, discuss how anti-Semitism manifests in progressive politics, argue about the merits of the 4-4-2 formation, or just shout 'that's your mum that is', now’s your chance to grab one of our free places.

We’ll be particularly focusing on David’s recent short book which looks at how (in the words of the dust jacket) 'identity politics has failed one particular identity... those who think of themselves as on the right side of history have often ignored the history of anti-Semitism'.

David will be chatting with Mumsnet HQ and answering your questions on Wednesday 28 April at 8pm, and you can book your place now by registering here.

Please note 1 If you join the Zoom chat, your camera will be turned off by default. Your screen name may be visible if we ask you to read your question out ‘live’, so consider whether you’re happy to use your RL name or want to use your MN posting name, or something else entirely.

Please note 2 We can only take questions from Zoomchat attendees on the night - please don’t use this thread to ask questions in advance as we can’t promise we’ll be able to put them forwards.

Register for free (only 100 places are available) here

Thanks
MNHQ

I suppose it proves a point but it also sends out the signal that it is allowed on mumsnet

Astonishing poster on another thread trying to justify people wearing the yellow star. Apparently it is a nuance, you can compare it to a gay person being offended by Drag Race and the people wearing them could possibly be Jewish.

I do think we're owed a comment on this, rather than MNHQ silently leaving Jews to defend themselves.

I'm assuming hoping it's because it's the weekend.

I’ve contacted MNHQ and really hope there’s a response soon.

@CommunistLegoBloc

I do think we're owed a comment on this, rather than MNHQ silently leaving Jews to defend themselves.

I agree but sadly after the experiences of the past five years or so I'm not surprised by the radio silence.

I am extremely grateful to the non-Jewish people on this thread who have expressed genuine care and solidarity and anger at the racism e.g. @mrsterrypratchett @misshapencha0s and others.

Also @truelywonder and @zzpplant among others

Well I think we have here what is known elsewhere on MN as a ‘community disruptor.’

You have to wonder what MNHQ is playing at here, but DB’s point is being pretty well proven, isn’t it?

Evening, everyone. Thanks for the reports, which we wanted to reassure you we take seriously and appreciate. We have deleted a few posts on this thread. We will continue to delete anything antisemitic, or which breaches our talk guidelines in other ways, so please do continue to report any posts we need to take a look at.

“We will continue to delete anything antisemitic”

But you’ll just let the poster carry on baiting?

HebeMumsnet Okay but once somebody has had multiple deletions for racism, shouldn't they be banned?

It really isn't that hard as a non-Jew (or non-whoever in any given context) when someone says 'that's offensive' to reply 'ah, sorry about that, didn't realise, I'll not say that anymore'. To go on challenging it is indeed baity and looking for a loophole to contribute being offensive.

*continue

@noraclavicle

“We will continue to delete anything antisemitic”

But you’ll just let the poster carry on baiting?

Yeah, this is my issue. It's not exactly a no tolerance approach to be racism / anti-Semitism if that's the case, is it?

No other minority would be told that what they consider racist is not actually racist or offensive. If someone black/Asian/gay said something something was offensive, it's generally accepted.

Why is that not the case with antisemitism?

@Quaversplease

No other minority would be told that what they consider racist is not actually racist or offensive. If someone black/Asian/gay said something something was offensive, it's generally accepted.

Why is that not the case with antisemitism?

I wish this was the case. It is not always so. There is a reason that the Black Mumsnet section was requested. The amount of racism on here was/is a problem. But then it is a problem in society, and Mumsnet is a reflection of that. There are plenty of posters who are prepared to argue their covert racism, all day long. I could spend too much time reporting posts.

Thanks for all your thoughts on this. We absolutely agree that the 'Y' word is offensive - it breaks our Guidelines on racism and we will always delete any use of it. Though we tend not to discuss our dealings with individual users, repeated use of this word/ deletions for this word, or other racist terms, will always lead to a user account being suspended.

@Quaversplease i'm pretty sure your question is rhetorical. If not i highly recommend David Baddiel's new book as he covers this very issue in great detail and with great finesse. He examines in great detail the fact that Jews can't seem to win in terms of identity politics - they are the scapegoat, the capitalists yet the communists, the masterminds of the world, yet the reason it's all going wrong, the victims yet the oppressors, the minority yet the invisible minority. If they dare to speak out they are 'hysterical' and accused of being OTT/over sensitive (as illustrated in this thread). It is very uncomfortable in places but absolutely encompasses all the shit that Jews have to put up with from every corner. If any other minority group deems something to be offensive it is treated as such. If Jews dare to be offended they receive yet more vitriol. It makes me so angry.

That someone comes on here, arguing that the use of the y word is open to debate just beggars belief. In spite of them being told time and time again.

But it's not just using the word, @RowanMumsnet. It's coming on here and arguing their theoretical right to use it, despite Jews asking them to stop. The poster in question didn't need to repeat the word - they just wanted to antagonise Jewish posters and try to get them to engage in a debate about the legitimacy of the word. When I objected, they told me I just wanted a fight, that I wasn't willing to have a fair discussion. All of that is so much more wearing and manipulative and painful than the original issue - which could have been resolved with a simple 'oh I'm sorry, I didn't know, I won't use it again if Jews find it hurtful.'

But by the guidelines you just outlined above, that stuff doesn't quite fit? It's more slippery because it's not just repeatedly saying Y or N or whatever. But it's so damaging.

I also note the use of the word 'suspension' and not ban...

Agree people these days are more slippery and clever with their prejudices. They know how to manipulate and skirt around the rules. That actually is more insulting and frustrating I think. Getting away with playing the system because they know we can do nothing about it.

@Misshapencha0s It was a rhetorical question. I'm half way through the book. I'm Jewish myself and have been subject to both obvious and covert antisemitism. One particular ongoing situation at work that was so subtle I wondered if I was imagining it but a colleague and friend (who happened to be black and maybe more attuned to racism) complained to our manager without me saying anything.

@TruelyWonder You are right. We've had years of this "oh just wondering...", "genuine question", disingenuous bullshit from Corbyn's lot.

It was obvious from this particular poster's initial post that they were here to offend, to cause upset, and to cover up their obvious racist goading with a thin veneer of supposed politeness. It's a shame when that works.

@C130 I agree with you that racism against other minorities is also endemic and that people often get away with it. I believe the UK as a whole has become more openly racist in the past few years, compared to the 90s/00s.

CommunistLegoBloc

“It's not exactly a no tolerance approach to be racism / anti-Semitism if that's the case, is it?”

No, it certainly isn’t. And MHQ seems to have a tin-ear on this. The fact that they haven’t quite grasped that a user carefully keeping on baiting and prodding whilst no longer using the actual word they deployed to deliberately upset in the first place is still employing race-baiting behaviour is pretty depressing. The fact that it’s happened on THIS thread re Baddiel’s book should be slapping them collectively round the face like a wet fish with mind-awakening powers. But no...