A truly independent enquiry into child sex abuse ?

[Whitershadeofpale]

I've been following and to some extent contributing to the current threads about the links between the establishment and paedophile rings/ cover ups.

Like lots of others I'm angry; angry that this has happened and even more angry that the proposed investigation places at it's head someone with links to the same culture of abuse and coverups that she is meant to expose. Please consider a mumsnet campaign to try and secure a truly independent review into this in a similar vein to the Hillsborough enquiry.

That's a badly written petition, unfortunately - the headline says an independent judge should be appointed; the text says B-S should have lay people sitting with her.

If someone wants to get up a better written petition I'll sign pronto, but this one is redundant: the former Tory children's minister has already said B-S is fine because other people sitting with her is a given.

Good stuff Whiter you should link the thread too.

There is of course Simon Danczuk but I have a feeling he would be too close to the investigation at this time.

The NSPCC are aiding the inquiry, aren't they? It would be good to hear their perspective and involvement I think.

There is the current recommendation of criminal action for failure to report incidences of abuse, but personally I'd like to see more detail on any proposed law. Bearing in mind a lot of these abusers traded on fear of recrimination it certainly is a hard one to police.

Here wally www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/2129920-Tom-Watson?

There are two enquiries. Head of NSPCC is heading one, B-S is heading the other. They are very much linked.

Maybe as well as contacting the MPs involved, maybe consider contacting Exaro or twitter.com/murunbuch?

Tom Watson's petition now has 95,000

discussion on twitter #CSAinquiry

Marking place

I'm in-I agree B-S is a shit choice.

To clarify, there are two petitions on the go.

Tom Watson's is here: Establish a national inquiry into allegations of organised child abuse

The other one, specifically about Butler-Sloss but poorly worded is here: A PROPER INDEPENDENT JUDGE SHOULD BE APPOINTED

That sounds like a good placard waiting B-S=bullshit.

Absolutely this should be a Mumsnet campaign.

It is shocking that Butler-Sloss has been appointed.

I've lobbied my MP about it - MPs do take notice of local constituents - they want us to vote for them next year, and not campaign against them.

Please, everyone, as well as all the above, drop a quick email to your local MP - you can find her/him here:

www.theyworkforyou.com/

I'm in.
If nothing else, BS, by being of the establishment and having lived through that time cannot help but be partisan.
I would like to see Clive Stafford Smith chair the commission. Tenacious, intellectually rigorous, establishment enough for credibility (posh) but having lived away for long enough to be a fresh pair of eyes.

I agree that MN should be pushing this. Its already losing ground as far as media headlines are concerned. Westminster probably hoping they'll get back from summer break and it will be old news.

It must stay high profile until a proper inquiry is carried out, how ever long that takes.

I agree. They have to realise that cover-ups and whitewashes are no longer acceptable - and never should have been. We've been treated with contempt for too long.

B-S=Bullshit. Love it! Have signed both petitions.

I won't be signing this petition.

I don't understand why a distinguished and experienced judge should be considered as incapable of doing this kind of work because30 years agoher brother, now dead, decided that there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute someone.

I also don't understand why a 'dossier' put together by a man who was considered to be off his rocker for most of his time as an MP should be given such gravitas. He was one of the drivers behind the 'Satanic abuse' allegations in Cleveland, which caused great distress to so many families. He was also extremely homophobic (regarding paedophilia and homosexuality as almost the same thing) and had very extreme right-wing views. And we're taking his dossier (which seems to be just a handwritten piece of paper) this seriously?

If you research this, Abra1d, you will get it.

Abra i think you need to do a bit research about Cleveland and the amendments that have been made by her since its publication.

As for Dickens dossier being 1 piece of paper, pop onto the ITN news report with Geoffrey Dickens flicking through his dossier with the reporter. I think you'll see it was a file with many bits of paper and photographs

If you look at a lot of the historical abuse you will see that there is a definite pattern of little boys being targeted by men. I'm guessing that 30 years ago someone like GD would have automatically presumed men abusing boys were Gay because the huge amount of research done into CSA showing its about control and power hadnt been done back then so an easy assumption for anyone to make.

Don't be daft, Abra1d.

If a case in any way involving her brother came before B-S in court, she would have to declare a conflict of interest and recuse herself. That's not a reflection on her ability as a judge: it's a normal safeguard so the impartiality of the judge is unquestionable.

And this is standard good practice across many other areas too.

Why would we apply a lower standard for a major enquiry?

Well I have spent some time reading up on the case.

Among his other claims Geoffrey Dickens stated that babies were being bred for witchcraft. He claimed that the NUT should sack gay teachers.

EBS, by contrast, is a distinguished judge of many years' standing. Someone trained in the objective assessment of evidence and the law. She is regarded as fair, even by The Guardian, that well known right-wing establishment-loving oracle. www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jul/08/elizabeth-butler-sloss-natural-choice-child-abuse-inquiry

But we should believe the former and distrust without question the latter?

B-S is not beyond reproach, as has been said about her.

She lied about Fathers4Justice threatening her and has made numerous amendments to her findings on the Cleveland case. She didn't fully investigate information given to her.

Add to this that she is very much part of the establishment that need to be investigated and we do not have an impartial person chairing this inquiry.

She's hardly the only distinguished judge of many years' standing in the UK, though, is she?

There's no necessity of her being the one to head the inquiry.

Not taking cases where there's a conflict of interest is a normal part of a judge's job. Hasn't even got started yet, so this should be a case of whoops! move on.

Honestly, the heavy weather she and the govt are making of this is beginning to make me think there is another reason she was the choice - which I didn't think before.

"There's no necessity of her being the one to head the inquiry."

Oh, I think there is!

One of my biggest concerns about the appointment of B-S is her close ties to the establishment could put victims off from coming forward.

I think there definitely needs to be a campaign I'm quite ashamed of the British publics response in comparison to the Belgians in the 90s.

I'm in. But I have concerns over whoever is chosen to head it simply because those involved that want to keep their names out of it appear too well connected.

I think they are simply testing the public and our response. Politics, media and money are too corrupt and if handouts or threats won't work then death will. The full truth may never come out. These are well educated individuals who probably console themselves with the fact that this sort of thing has gone on for centuries and therefore is 'human nature'. It makes me so angry. Every child deserves to be protected but those with the ultimate position to protect children or instigate protection measures abuse them instead. They are children FFS. Go and get sexual kicks from a consenting adult!

I'm with you on this thread too. I also think we need to keep up the momentum and pressure/