What do you think about spouses/partners staying overnight on postnatal wards?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

The organisation Birthrights (with whom we've done some stuff in the past) are planning a new campaign called First Night, and wanted to know whether it's something MN could support - so we said we'd ask you lot!

Here's Birthrights' description of the campaign:

'Birthrights is a human rights in childbirth charity, and we will be launching a campaign later this year to ensure women aren't left alone on often over-staffed postnatal wards, but instead can choose to have their partner remain with them overnight. We will be researching what's important to women, partners and staff, the barriers and benefits, and working with units who've implemented this policy to draw up best practice guidelines to use as they lobby for change.'

So please let us know what you think. Is this something you'd like us to swing behind?

Thanks
MNHQ

And, (im not sure how doable this is?) supporting the choice to be induced and then go home, if you had planned a homebirth.

Not sure how this works over the country. I was told no, you stay (with the implication again that of course i could leave but...yadda yadda...my fault), whereas my sister was told she could.

no, no, no - a bad idea,

I knew a woman whose partner decided that he wanted sex within 8 hours of her giving birth. SHe had loads of stitches, bit she did it to keep the peace. He complained that they had made his dick sore. Despite how much agony she was in.

Women need a safe place post partum. Especially first babies. One loses ones dignity when having the baby, but its back pretty soon after. Walking around with a jug and a pack of sanpro and big grannny panties, with your nighty all blood stained...its bad enough with a load of other women, add strange men - just no!

This won't work unless every new mother has her own room.

When I had DC1 I had only gone in for a scan which showed I needed an emergency section. This was done in the evening and it was 3 hours before DC and I were back together on the ward. DH stayed until midnight and tbh either the staff didn't realise he was still there or, as he feels, they were just happy someone else could look after me. He stayed past the visiting hours for at least the next two nights too and given the lack of care I would have been very upset if they had made him leave. Him being there bothered no one. I had my curtains shut 99% of the time and we were always very quiet.

DC2 was a VBAC but again DH stayed until after midnight but he had too given that I was in theatre and DC needed her daddy. Even worse care but I was fine to be left as my older child needed daddy more than I did.

DC3 left within hours..

I would be worried that a small minority of staff will want this as it means someone else will do some of the care they are meant to be doing and how many husbands are medically qualified should something go wrong with mum or baby?

"well of course you can just leave, but if anything goes wrong it's your fault"

Yes to this! Hours and hours waiting because they keep forgetting to get the fucking paperwork to sign. Oh and then there was a shift change... so keep waiting.

I really don't like this campaign. The rights of a few to feel more comfortable don't supersede the rights of many to feel less comfortable.

Absolutely not, unless in a private room. I stayed a couple of nights on a labour ward (pre-natally) where visitors were allowed until very late (were still wandering around at 11pm). It was awful - lots of loud voices, men looking in through the curtains on my bed (mistakenly, I presume).

My own DH is a nice, reasonable chap who would behave entirely appropriately in this situation, but it was quite clear that many other "D"Ps are not.

It's a no from me too. I quite enjoyed (as much as one can) my first quiet night alone with DS and as was mentioned up thread, I think it was beneficial for DH to have a bit of quiet space alone too to rest and prepare for us coming home. It's only a few hours and it didn't affect his bond with DS at all, but it meant I came home to a stocked fridge etc as he had time to go to thw shops and so on. So much of postnatal 'care' is basically waiting around anyway.

I wish more hospitals had private rooms you could pay for actually.

Well, it's nice that BirthRights are reading our responses but I just don't see how this is workable. Where are these private rooms going to come from? How the heck are they going to have 'private areas' on a ward?
Yes, women want support after birth but we also want privacy. You're not going to get that with 6 or 7 medically untrained total strangers wandering around.

I think we can all agree that maternity services in this country need improving, but allowing partners to stay overnight on a ward will make it worse, not better.

dwells please say she is not with him anymore? That's horrific :(

I would not support this.

I would have loved to have my DH on hand overnight to support me but I owuld have been very uncomfortable having other men on the ward overnight. I also recognise that many women would not want their own partner overnight for various reasons.

Here are some reasons off the top of my head why I think it's a bad idea:

• there is no space on postnatal wards to add extra beds for partners. Chairs are not suitable for overnight stays.

• in my local hospital there are no toilet or shower faciities for men on the postnatal wards. Men would inevitably use the women's facilities, reducing access to an already inadequate resource.

• women are walking around from bed to bathroom in their nighties or pyjamas, often leaking lochia, and having men there during visiting hours was bad enough for my sense of dignity.

• women are on postnatal wards to rest and recover from birth. Having extra people all the time would be noisy and stressful for patients and staff.

• it would further reduce privacy for women talking to HCPs about their medical needs during overnight monitoring checks.

• women with abusive partners would not have an opportunity to talk about their relationship as the man would always be there.

• let's face it, there are some very unpleasant people around. I would not have felt safe sleeping in a room with other patients' partners there too, or leaving my baby in their crib while I showered or went to the loo.

This would be even worse for women without a partner to stay overnight, or whose partner couldn't stay for whatever reason e.g. other children at home. It would also be terribly unsafe for women who were recovering from c-section or otherwise unable to move around.

No no no no no. Really bad idea.
I had 2 c-sections and in total 8 nights in hospital and although it was tough doing it on my own and would have loved some support from DH, I do not want other womens partners hanging around all night in the same ward. No thanks.

Dwells that makes me so very sad :(

I'm against this too. And I say that as someone who had a third degree tear after a pretty laborious labour. Following my two hours in theatre, spinal, and transfer to the ward at 4.30am, I was left with my nappyless DD on me, still horribly sweaty and sticky, having being given nothing to eat while DH was set home. DD was there with me until 8.45 in the morning.

Funny thing is, I think I was so much in shock, I didn't even mind! And the skin to skin was nice. It would have been good if DH had been able to stay to help get me sorted. He gave me a bed bath of sorts after DD2 (wasn't allowed up as my pulse was "resting" at 180 - she'd made a quick arrival) . But she was born at 9.15am so it was all a bit easier.

The reason I'm against it (unless there are private rooms) is really a space and noise issue. The wards are busy and noisy enough without, effectively, doubling the number of resident adults!

Sorry MN, agree that a campaign into improved resources would be a better bet.

Christ Dwells he could have killed her! That is awful :(

I'm with all the very firm Nos. Who the hell wants strange men wandering about in a gynae ward? A horrible idea.

"improving women’s experience of pregnancy and childbirth" - how is a ward filled with unfamiliar, untrained men going to improve anyone's experience of childbirth?
"by promoting respect for human rights." - putting vulnerable post-birth women on public view is NOT respecting their human rights.
"We believe that all women are entitled to respectful maternity care that protects their fundamental rights to dignity, autonomy, privacy and equality." - how is allowing untrained members of the public into maternity wards contributing to any of these factors in any way at all?

Incredibly poorly thought out campaign.

What I would support is more family rooms in a separate part of the building to the postnatal wards, for families who have an exceptional need for the partner to stay overnight e.g. women who are having long induced labours moved from the day suite overnight, women who have experienced a stillbirth, women with disabilities rendering them unable to care for their baby alone etc.

Birthrights if you are reading thsi can you please answer my question?

If 1 out of 4 women experiences domestic violence and the majority of DV starts or escalates with pregnancy why do you think having men on the ward is a good thing?

How on earth is it that we can see all the insurmountable problems so clearly, but BirthRights (and possibly, heaven help us, MNHQ) can't?

RedToothbrush is right about trauma though. All I wanted was to have my own room with DD and for DH to be with me. In an ideal world YES this is what I want and I think it might have helped me mentally and made my first few months with DD easier (I was only in hospital for a few days but a difficult start led to a difficult first few months)

But as ReallyFuckingFedUp points out up thread - it's a few people feeling more comfortable vs many people feeling less comfortable.

For the reasons so many others have expressed this seems generally a bad idea unless every new mother is given a private room. I do think it should be allowed if you've paid for a private ensuite room though - the hospital where I had my DCs didn't allow it in any circs.

NHS North Cumbria policy on eliminating mixed-sex wards:

Same-sex accommodation: your privacy, our responsibility
Everyone working in the NHS has a vital part to play in achieving the goal of eliminating mixed-sex accommodation and ensuring that all patients feel as comfortable and relaxed as possible during their time in hospital.

The NHS Constitution states that all patients have the right to privacy and to be treated with dignity and respect. We believe that providing same-sex accommodation is an effective way of helping to achieve this goal and gives all patients the best possible experience whilst they are in hospital.
Why is same-sex accommodation so important?
It is clear from what patients tell us that being in mixed-sex accommodation can compromise their privacy and dignity at a time when they may already be feeling vulnerable. The most common concerns include physical exposure, being in an embarrassing or threatening situation, noise, and the possibility of other patients overhearing conversations about their condition.

Women and elderly women in particular, are most likely to worry about being in mixed-sex accommodation, although male patients also say that they feel reluctant to talk openly and find it embarrassing to be in a mixed-sex setting. Some patients are also strongly opposed to mixed-sex accommodation for cultural or religious reasons.

The need to safeguard patients' privacy and dignity applies to all areas of hospital care. However, in exceptional circumstances (for instance where the patient needs very specialised or urgent care), providing fast effective care for the patient may take priority over ensuring same-sex accommodation. Where mixing does occur, it must be in the interest of all the patients affected.

For me Silly its because I know my DH but I dont know yours! If you and I were in adjoining cubicles, how would you feel if the curtains were kept open by the MW and there you are at 3am, boobs out in all their glory and my husband snoring away a couple of feet away? Same way as I would feel with your husband a couple of feet from me I am guessing!

As the others have said, yes I want my husband there but I dont want yours :o

After dc3, a woman with no English in the cubicle next to me begged for her husband to stay after her c-section. I had every sympathy. There was virtually no staff on and she could barely communicate and couldn't reach her baby.

I had no issue with dh going home but after four days stop start labour and no sleep, by 4am I was falling asleep on a baby who couldn't be put down without screaming and seriously concerned for his safety in the narrow high bed with signs over it advising women there had been deaths from bedsharing in the Trust in recent months. I would have killed to have Dh there to keep the baby safe.

But wouldn't it be better to have more staff on, so she could access her baby and you could have kept your baby safe?

Really, Sillylass? Have you read the thread and seen/read/understood the many reasons other posters have given?

NO. NO NO.

Reasons that spring to mind.
1 I found even other women's visitors difficult due to noise, fussing, chair scraping when I was exhausted and desperate for a few minutes sleep while newborn dozing. Partners there all night - NO
2 I felt and looked vulnerable. Don't want the male partner of the woman in the next bed seeing me struggling to breastfeed for the first time, struggling to get out of bed post stitches etc
3 Don't want another man talking to his DW about how lovely it all is and cooing etc if my DP is not there or if my baby is ill.
4 I valued time with the midwives without DP just to talk about private things.
5 Wards so busy - do we have beds to spare????

If you have a private ward then yes it is fine - if that is what you choose.