What do you think about spouses/partners staying overnight on postnatal wards?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

The organisation Birthrights (with whom we've done some stuff in the past) are planning a new campaign called First Night, and wanted to know whether it's something MN could support - so we said we'd ask you lot!

Here's Birthrights' description of the campaign:

'Birthrights is a human rights in childbirth charity, and we will be launching a campaign later this year to ensure women aren't left alone on often over-staffed postnatal wards, but instead can choose to have their partner remain with them overnight. We will be researching what's important to women, partners and staff, the barriers and benefits, and working with units who've implemented this policy to draw up best practice guidelines to use as they lobby for change.'

So please let us know what you think. Is this something you'd like us to swing behind?

Thanks
MNHQ

They can't make safe and private spaces available without allowing for private toilets in private rooms. And added security for men who prove to not be safe. And you can't account for women who would prefer their partners NOT be there but are unable to say so because they would demand "their rights" or are a potential threat.

No thanks.

It would have been okay first time, but the second and third dh needed to be at home with the children, so I would have been there with a bunch of other men. So no thank you. I liked the quiet times when no-one (including me) had visitors.

I agree, they have made their mind up already so I am not sure why they bothered asking us!

The vast majority have said no and given very good reasons why, which your rather wooly mission statement doesnt even begin to address. The so called "Best practice guidleines" are hilarious in their non-workability! Were are all these private rooms supposed to come from? Assume every woman wants a private room, because most would ask for one if they thought they could get one, then that would mean massive building and redesigns in every hospital, it simply isnt do able. The same with zero tolerance, how would that be policed? The only way it could be done in order to ensure the safety of the staff, women and babies would be to have at least one security guard on the ward at all times!

You seem absolutely determined to push this despite most women telling you that they dont want it! Human rights in childbirth includes the right to say what you DONT want as well as what you do!

It does sound a bit like they have already decided this is "what's best" not MNHQ but birthrights.

I think this about birth rights for men to be honest. So let's make that sounds fluffy and lovely until it's an ex partner you don't want there demanding his rights.

And I repeat what I said earlier, the best "human right in childbirth" you can fight for is proper aftercare given by trained staff in appropriate numbers. If there were enough MW on wards and care assistants then you wouldnt need husbands there over night to help care for the mother.

Sorry, yes Really is right, by "they" I mean Birthrights not MNHQ.

Well after a very stressful pregnancy, a c-section for a preemie and 11 days is hospital with DS in neonatal, it would have been lovely for DH to stay, but that was when I was in a private room for the 1st half of it. When I got on to the ward a few days before we came home, I would've said no for the reasons stated above. Not every Dad is caring, supportive and loving so on balance although it would have been nice for me personally, it wouldn't think it a great idea. At least visiting times are limited, so if there were men in here you were uncomfortable about (or just uncomfortable about men in general) there was always light at the end of the tunnel so to speak.

No. Glad to see that PPs have outlined the points that need to be addressed: staffing, homebirth support, bf support etc, before partners being allowed to stay overnight on wards.

I hope that Birthright will measure how much time is spent by staff policing such a policy rather than attending to the women and babies.

I too will be waiting to see what the recommendations are before lending my support to a campaign for this.

I had a private room with my third (after a day on a ward next to the midwives) and double rooms with my first and second (all 3 were sections - seems common for sections to be given smaller rooms), still wouldn't want lots of men there.

And anyway this really is first baby only isn't it (unless we're going to start having siblings stay over - no thanks).

I can't see how a private room would be available on request - there aren't enough. And anyway for my third hospital policy was that post section you had to be on a ward near the midwives station, then moved only when they knew you were fine.

YY Bogeyface.

RowanMumsnet - please, please, please don't support this ridiculous campaign. An overwhelming number of people here hate the idea, and have clearly explained why. None of the points raised by BirthRights have even begun to address the concerns raised.

Just. Say. No.

No, for all the reasons stated on the thread, but also the fact that this relies on the good behaviour of the partners/birthing partners. And this can't be guaranteed. Who's to say they will know how to behave on the ward overnight?

When I had DD, the nurses/hcas kept coming behind my curtain while I was trying to establish bf. Each time they left the curtains open, and the partner of the woman opposite sat and gawked in at half naked me and baby DD. He wasn't intimidating but it really pissed me off. A mild example but imagine how much worse it could have been.

2nd DC I leaked so much blood I had to waddle back and forward to the loo with enormous pads between my legs, blood pouring out all over my nightie. Not exactly conducive to dignity and privacy for patients, if non-patients are there on the ward 24 hours a day.

Who runs Birth Right? Is it a Men's Rights organisation, out of interest?

So I'm still a no. Can't imagine I'd ever be a yes tbh.

*There are particular issues with men being on the wards overnight, but I would object to any extra people being there as a rule. I've had to listen to couples rowing, grandmothers berating, siblings bickering, and a whole family group arguing about being thrown out at the end of visiting hours because they were having a party (that as a humdinger). All of that took staff

Why, at a point when the system is creaking at the seams probably more than at any stage in NHS history, is anyone proposing to increase the number of people on maternity wards?*

I totally agree with Abbie. Some of the visitors (not just men) on the ward when I had DD were vile and put me on edge. The only respite was at night. I was tired, I was vulnerable, I was shell-shocked. What I didn't need was strangers at close-quarters behaving appallingly.

And I agree that my husband was more use to me well-rested from having slept all night at home.

I would have liked more support while on the ward but would have preferred that to come from the staff - I appreciate they were understaffed and held up with other duties. There's a gap that needs filling for professional staff that are focused solely on the care of new mums while in hospital.

But it sounds like Birthrights are going to plow on anyway regardless of feedback. Yet another group who thinks they know what new mums/dads need more than they themselves do.

No, what they need is more staff; not necessarily highly trained nurses, just gentle, sympathetic healthcare assistants who can fetch you a drink, change your baby, or sort out some clean linen for your bed. It is madness that women are expected to essentially fend for themselves, and care for their baby, hours after giving birth.

On the issue of privacy, when I gave birth twenty years ago, the set up was that you laboured in a cubicle on a curtained ward with half a dozen other people, and their partners. When your contractions got strong, you shuffled down the corridor to the delivery room to give birth.

It was horrendous; young girls screaming, horrible partners moaning, a complete lack of privacy. My first labour was very quick and the midwife wouldn't really believe my contractions were as strong as I claimed. How I made it down that corridor I'll never know but I gave birth about 10 minutes later (with resultant nasty tears). Second labour was even quicker and I didn't even make it to the delivery room. I gave birth on the curtained ward, knowing I had a listening audience of about a dozen random strangers. Nice.

Thanks shouldnt. No that isnt all, she is a wheelchair user too, but the toileting is the thing she is worried about in particular. I'll tel her how it works on your ward :)

Rowan, I think birthrights could start with focussing on how many women feel 'held hostage' after birth, who want to go home but are blackmailed into staying ("well of course you can just leave, but if anything goes wrong it's your fault"). That would free up staff to help with the understaffing, the partner is then around for the first night, and there is more space on the ward to accommodate partners staying for those who cant go home?

That is though, without kicking people out as soon as the cord is cut, it must be their choice to leave early.

Oops. bold fail for some reason.

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO AND NO!

With the current set up that seems to exist in most hospitals/maternity wards there simply isn't room for this to happen.

When I had my DC visiting hours were very flexible, which is obviously great if you want people to visit you whenever they can/you want, but it means that there's someone other than medical staff, aka strangers, filling up the ward all day. When you've just given birth, you're sore, bleeding, knackered and trying to get breastfeeding going - and you're in your night clothes - the last thing you want is that. I was in on a Sunday, and the woman next to me had all her family - husband, father, mother and some other person - all sitting there for hours - reading the Sunday papers, chatting and taking up a lot of space and spilling into the area by my bed.

It was horrendous.

Whilst I appreciate that my DH missed out on those first hours/days, and it would have been lovely for us to be together, the hospital/ward simply wasn't designed for this and until wards are re-designed/women are allocated private rooms, this is not only impractical but it also risks making the whole birthing experience unpleasant and intimidating for women.

Please don't support this campaign

I would have given anything for my DH to be there the nights I had to stay in hospital. I've never been so lonely. It was awful, and I cried and cried. I was 26 years old and an independent person, but it was still awful. I can't even really talk about it without getting emotional, so I'll leave it there.

However I still think this is a Very Bad Idea. It was bad enough having five other women and babies in there with me without all their husbands/partners as well. I found visiting time very difficult as the flocks of visitors descended. At least at night I could stop trying to look happy, and cry alone!

Please listen to your members and don't support this campaign.

35 years ago, when you had babies, you were kept in for a week. You were well looked-after by midwives. My DC1 was in SCBU for most of the time, so my DH came in when he could to see her.

In the ward, there was two hours visiting in the afternoon, GPs and husbands only. When they left your curtains were closed, babies were taken to the nursery and you were forced to rest. Evening visiting was husbands only.

Nighttime, babies went to nursery and you were woken when they needed feeding.

So much peace and quiet - even with crying babies, you did actually rest.

And I bonded with my baby just fine. So my DH.

I don't think the NHS can afford to make any more provision for this idea. Especially as if you stay in it is only one night, as a rule - unless you're quite poorly. And then you need proper medical care not your DH. Any money going needs to be spent on more well trained midwives and other HCP in my view. Then new mothers can cope without their partners for a couple of days.

I'm with the majority - yes, if private rooms with ensuites are available. On a ward, I wouldn't want strange men around me. I want my husband there, not other people's.

I'm currently pg and terrified of hospitals. I was hoping for a home birth. Due to issues that have recently arisen, I'm now to give birth early by planned CS with the baby ending up in NICU/SCBU. My local hospital says that probably in those circs I would get a private room so my husband could stay (but on another occasion said they keep everyone who has a CS on a ward together for observation so they are not being consistent). Because of this uncertainty and the fact that I am likely to be a physical and emotional wreck on the first night, we have taken the financially brutal decision to opt for a private birth, where I will be guaranteed a private room and my husband can stay with me.

Birthrights is the UK’s only organisation dedicated to improving women’s experience of pregnancy and childbirth by promoting respect for human rights. We believe that all women are entitled to respectful maternity care that protects their fundamental rights to dignity, autonomy, privacy and equality.

I dont see that having wards full of men 24/7 will be protecting fundemental rights to dignity and privacy.

www.birthrights.org.uk/

The hospital I had DD in was always reputed to have 2 distinct types of mothers: those from one side of the hospital tended to be a bit older, educated, with careers, etc and rather "naice", those from the other side tended to be young mums who lived in very different social circumstances.

When I had DD I was 30, professionally qualified and my life was quite settled while the other 3 mums in the ward were all under 20, not working and seemed, from what they said, to have quite turbulent lives so I did feel something of an outsider and couldn't wait to go home. While I might have liked to have DH there I would not have felt comfortable with some of their visitors staying and they may well have felt the same so overall I think the answer has to be no.

Yup. Still a no here too.

I deliberately choose to go to a hospital with more private rooms to maximise my chances of being able to get one. My nearest hospital has barely any, and this is part of what I see being the problem. When planning, due consideration needs to be given to expanding the number of private rooms available as there are lots of reasons why women may prefer them, in terms of their privacy, dignity and mental well being. Many women who would benefit from them are not able to have one because they are either too full or none existent.

One of the overlooked issues which is on the rise and is putting a strain on services, is traumatic births. More because women are coming forward to express how much it has caused them distress and mental health problems. Its not necessarily because of unnecessarily intervention in birth, and can't simply be fixed by trying to encourage more natural births. More births are becoming more complex as we have fewer children at an older age and our underlying health is poorer. Yes, sometimes trauma is occurring due to poor staffing levels and poor post natal care, but not always, and I think it is important to recognise some of these issues and look at ways which may help. Which does include more private rooms and the support of partners.

A midwife, isn't a substitute for your partner and vice versa. I don't like the idea that we should be forced to choose between one or the other when both of benefit to many.

I disagree with saying we should just look at improving staffing levels for this reason. There should be a multiple approach, looking at a number of different problems and seeing how they benefit different women. They needs to be a move away from mass catering in healthcare full stop, and if efforts are just focused on one approach then you really aren't considering women as individuals anymore than if the status quo continues.