D'y ever wonder if FrumpyGrumpy's holidays will EVER end?

[MarsLady]

Not here. Just back from second birth and now twin client's waters have gone!

Loving you all!

what a quandry.
You really are a wonderful MIL, but I know personally I would be very peeved if I found that dp's family had spoken to my HV. Even my ex MIL who I did have a good relationship with, I wouldn't have appreciated it. It sounds like she is finding the adjustment so hard and jsut wants her mum.

Perhaps rather than rush into anything, couldn't Dan talk to her and say if she still feels the same in 3 or 6 mnths time, then they will look into moving? Straight after a baby is not a good time to make big decisions.

Is she on any medication for the panic attacks?

Do you have any relationship with Em's mum? Could you chat to her about your concerns and that Em needs more support from her?

btw, my parents still havent called me. They are supposed to be coming over tommorrow and not looking forward to it one bit! I feel a bit childish for being so bothered about it, but I never miss their bdays/special ocassions, and dp's family also didnt bother with a card or text. I feel a bit of a mug really, always jumping when anyone else wants something, and treated like crap in return. Ended up feeling rather low and unloved over the weekend, but at least only 2.5 weeks til hol now.

Thanks Chops for your honest answer. That does concern me that she will be so angry. I do like Ems mum she is a lovely lady - I may ring her tonight. I can remember feeling the way that Em describes especially after the twins and Tom. Without any joking there was a time when the twins were about 6 weeks old when I would have let someone adopt them. I just couldn't cope. I would spend the entire day sobbing.

I appreciate your reply xxxx

forgot to mention that no she is on no medication for the panick attacks! I am on beta blockers for panick attacks and to be honest wouldn't like to be without them.

Chops - so sorry that you have felt pissed off fed up over the week end.

I had pnd after dd, so I know the feeling too.
I'm so glad you can talk to Em's mum, I think if you can work with her, you can provide the best support for Em. x

I wonder asd well, if there are any good herbal remedies for panic attacks? Not sure if soemthing like rescue remedy would really be strong enough?

Ems has always had panick attacks but she is afraid because her Gran had manic depression and her Mum has OCD. It was one of her major worries during her pregnancy. She said to me 'if you think Im going a bit crazy will you tell me.'

OK I need to make a plan. Ring Ems mum when she is home from work and I think I will ring my HV because she is really fabulous. She was my special care midwife when I had the twins and my HV with Tommy. I will have the 'I have a friend who is not very well' conversation with her. She was my saviour when I had the twins. When I had Tom he was a non sleeper and I got so low and down I asked her to come and see me. I confessed to her that I felt like hitting him because he was only sleeping 3 hours a night at about 1 years old. She did a sleep plan with me. When she saw how many times he woke up and how little sleep he had she said the classic line 'If he was mine I would throw him through the bloody window.'

That was my turning point when she confirmed how I felt. After that I just put up with it because I knew it wouldn't last forever.

Thanks Chops - I was wading through mud! Thanks for your opinion.

hello?

have i managed to do it again? another thread killer?

thats a yes then.

hey neeerly - how you feeling? how did the scan go?

feeling low as i am back from 5 days in portugal with NO KIDS! My scan went fine, just the one bean (piccie on profile), and I am 11 weeks today, so a week less than the docs thought, but about right for what i thought. Scarily I am exactly the same amount pregnant as I was this time 4 years ago. I was 10w 5 days pregs with boys at their scan on the 2nd August, I was also 10w 5 days with this one on 2nd august! means I am now due, 23rd Feb.

How is everyone?

great news about the scan and hope you mood picks up soon

I'm 14+3 and still sick

Thanks Momma - I always appreciate honesty. Going to track down my HV - cause she is a star and didn't report me to any authorities when I said I was going to batter fall out with Tom. She walked up to me and hugged me for about 20 mins

She used to bath the twins for me in exchange for a bacon butty!! Thanks again Momma xx

Shabs Its a toughie. Dan and Em are both in the adjustment part and, for me, that lasted a year at least. I ignored my low feelings and hid from the world. My house because my security.

One thing Em has to face is that no matter where she is, she will face the same feelings. If she doesn't confront this now, upfront and on the chin, then it might not be too long before its something else thats giving her the panic attacks. But you don't need me to say that. You know that. And you want to help.

I would not have been angry if my DP had talked to my HV. I hid for so long and I sometimes wonder if I would have got on the right road quicker if I had been forced into facing up to things earlier. I don't really see eye to eye with my MIL and so, if she had done that, I would have exploded and likely never talked to her again. It was probably laying out my feelings on here that really helped me get things in perspective so I could see the wood for the trees.

Would Em enter the wicked world of MN? She needn't tell anyone (a la FG!!!) and could splurge out and get support. It might be all she needs to see things differently. Because any change, any trips to the docs, any medication, any counselling..........has to be wanted by her if its to succeed.

And speaking from experience, a fantastic counsellor makes THE WORLD of difference.

Can she get access to a proper psychologist? Not a chatting counsellor. I am seeing a proper psychologist now and its opening up bits of me I didn't even know were there. I feel a bit like a flower in spring. I don't know whats coming next but I know its right. And I have started standing up for ME a little more. And that is making a difference. I have a long way to go to sort out my demons but I am facing them and it feels good.

Remember you said Dan saw his counsellor again before Lewis was born? Did that help? Could the same guy see Em? Would she go?

Hi,
Just a quickie as supposed to be cooking. Shabs, I know how worried you are because you love them so much, but I agree with the others that it would not be a good idea to talk to her health visitor, that should come fromm Dan if he would.. I dont see why though you couldnt talk to her Mum if you get on with her? Also as the wise FG has said this place MN is so supportive and not "face to face", how many on here have not been in the same position as Em? Do you think Shabs that Dans worries and anxieties are playing a part, worries of "what if something should happen to my son"? Has she not joined a local Mothers and toddlers group to meemt new mums like herself, it all helps I think. FG is right too that you have to face up to things where ever you are, we know that dont we? You are a brilliant MIL, so dont go thinking you aren`t helping, she knows hoow much you love her, just be there, they are lucky to have you xxxxx

rotten spelling, having a hot flush

Thanks frumpster and trips.....I am going to talk to Ems mum - she is lovely. She only wants to be at her mums or her sisters. I can understand that so much and it is very hard to have sons in a new baby situation. It is natural for a new mum to want to be around her mum. I dont see Lew very often which almost breaks my heart in two. BUT I know Em is not very well and I do understand she needs her mum. Dan is a real 'piggy in the middle.' He adores Em and Lew and is trying to protect them. He would jump off a bridge if Em asked him to. When you look around at other boys men of his age I realise how lucky we are to have him but I wish he would be more forceful (I dont think that is the right word) and stop treading on eggshells.

When Lew is having his 6am feed Dan gets up and gets ready for work. Then Em gets ready and Dan gets baby ready. He drives her and baby to her mums to spend the day - then he sets off for work. Gets in work for 7 and goes through till 5pm. Goes back to pick up Em and baby and back home. He looks so tired. OMG now I sound like my horrible MIL - singing my sons praises.

Right, enough of my ramblings. Will ring Ems mum later. Sorry to have gone on and on and on and on and on xxxxx

I passed my Creative Writing course! I got a grade 2 (not quite a distinction). This time next year I'll have my degree

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrilliant Mars - the girl dun good!!

Fantastic Mars - no idea where you find the time to study!!!!!!

Poor Emma - just want to give her a hug >
I would have been cross if my mother or MIL (I get on with both) went to the HV. But, if dh had gone that would have been different. We are all different and need help in different ways.

Sorry you aren't seeing Lewis as much as you would like, but things will get better and you are being very understanding.

Ah Shabs, this is hard. I think you are routing out the deep down stuff. Is Em going back to work? When? Will you be involved in Lewis care then? Did Dan and Em have their date?

Sorry to ask so much but it all makes a difference.......

When I first had DD1, I hated all the interference. I didn't have a clue what to do (she cried day and night and I felt totally useless, now (since hearing about Momma's DTs intolerances) I have a feeling it might have been some kind of intolerance). Anyway, what made it worse was that everyone wanted a piece of her (and me by default). I truly wanted to be left alone. It became my passion to block people and block situations where I'd have to meet anyone I knew. My own mum gave me some slack but the more I retreated the more my MIL would force herself, her opinions and her babbling empty chat upon me. I hated it with a passion. I fell out with her then, it recovered slightly, it resurfaced when the DTs came and its never recovered.

I am not, for one moment, saying this is you and Em, you guys get on. I actually always had to tolerate my MIL and once children came I had no more patience to take care of her needs as well as mine and my childrens.

Em needs to have all the information and then make up her own mind to what she wants to do. I would love to think she would seek out MN. She could be totally, totally anonymous and part of feeling better is getting it out.

And, of course, she is welcome to email me. I would happily chat with her and show her how I got to the point I am at from a point so far away. I'm not mended but I am able to talk much more freely and I don't hide anymore. I keep secrets and I never, ever, pass on anything someone has told me in confidence.

Shabs, remember Momma's gem. 9 months to get here, 9 months to get back again (or words to that affect).

keep the faith pinkfrog XXXXXXXXXXXXXX