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[ladymuckbeth]

Here we go. More unexpurgated chat about our darling angels, all of whom are gifted and have exceptionally calm and admirably-coping parents.

Hiya Chesti - how was the work trip? Would love to see a bit of Japan (assuming you had some playtime anyway). Congrats to dh on his job - sounds like a good long-term plan in the making. I'll be in a similar position of seeing little of my wages when I go back.

Some people Kate! It sounds like she is the one needing a drama. Things may be `worse' for someone else, but that doesn't mean your problems are negliible or that they don't take some time to get your head around??

Hmm, we have that set-up already for our tumbly & washing machine. It's ok but feels a bit... ad hoc / unfinished / make-do? I'd like to have it done `properly' if we're going to spend lots of cash. Also, our current kitchen was installed by the previous owner who was a joiner & the units are higher & worksurfaces wider than standard so I'm not sure if it would work so well with a standard fit kitchen? Interesting to hear about your integrated fridge probs - will look out for that! still dithering on build-in double oven at eye-level thing, or a range. & I've always been set on a gas hob but have been reading rave reviews on induction hobs. Hmm...

I took dd to a&e today & she does have bronchiolitis - I hope this isn't the beginning of a looooooong winter. They gave me the option of keeping her in but said she dosn't need O2 support at the moment so they would just be doing obs which they were happy that I'm sufficiently clued-up to do at home. More comfy at home so I opted for that.

How's DD, ALL? Hope she is feeling much better and you were able to stay away from hospital. Poor sausage, it's awful for them. Hope you're not having too much disruption to your sleep.

How's everyone else? All OK here, off to Belfast for a flying visit on Saturday for that fancy dress party I mentioned a while ago. Have changed horses mid-stream and am now going as Bjork in swan dress from the Oscars - I have a friend who's brilliant with sewing and had rustled it up for herself for another party. Tried it on earlier and it is bonkers but better than what I had in mind! Will be very exciting to be away even if just for a night (though I will struggle with a late night - I think I am incapable of keeping eyes open past 11pm since twins!)

Better run, they're waking up. S has not been in the best mood today, shall we say. I feel a long walk coming on...

Dd is much better thanks - feel like we're coming out of a bit of a fog of illness. Sleep has been much disrupted by all the littlies with boys needing cuddles / being nose-blocked and dd coughing all night. We decided the boys were just playing up at night now they're a lot better so have got tough with them again & after a couple of better nights, we're all feeling a bit more human.

Off on holiday tomorrow. Really looking forward to it, though we have just had to hire a car `cos our one is poorly again.... It's MIL's bday while we're away so we've spent the morning making & decorating biscuits & cards. Just need to finish sewing her bag and then pack

I've just postponed our building work too. We're just not ready and I've been getting uncharacteristically totally stressed out by it all. So now the plan is Feb half term. Shame it won't be done before I go back to work / in time for Xmas but I feel so better now I'm not stressing about it.

Hello all. :) This is probably the wrong time for me to start a post because it's time to feed the girls, but wanted to check in - have been very remiss about not posting since our return on Monday..

Kate - just wanted to add my hugs and thoughts re. Isla's diagnosis. She sounds like an incredibly brave girl and she's very lucky to have you as a Mummy, being her champion. I second/third/fourth what everyone else said about that ridiculous woman - I hate that kind of 'competitive bad circumstances' thing, where you can't complain about anything because at least you're not a starving child in Africa etc etc. We all feel the pain for our children, because we want them to have as healthy, happy, and easy life as possible. I struggle enough with mine having a squint (both children it seems) and Eve's constipation. You moan away here as much as you like.

Holiday was truly lovely - Cerub I am tempted to harangue you with details about it because I really think you would like it there and I would challenge you not to enjoy it especially knowing that by the time you went, S & R would be older and therefore easier to take anywhere We made great friends with another family, and she also worked in TV (very successfully, unlike my damp squib of a career towards the end ) - and she has inspired me to think that I could even get a job if I want one that would work around having children. In fact she has even offered to help me on that front - so it could potentially have been a very good holiday indeed. Fingers crossed.

Girls started new nursery yesterday, jury still out. Early days, although the girls seemed to love it.

I'll be back later to write more - but ALL - have a great trip!!!! :)

Marking place. Welcome back Mucky, have a fab time ALL!
Back later

Marking my place too, sorry I've been rubbish lately, very busy with the new business and had been studying for my driving theory test, luckily I passed!
Cerub you looked fab dressed as Bjork! Did you have fun? Did your friend like her gift?
Mucky so jealous about your holiday!
ALL I hope Cora is on the mend I think you did the right thing postponing the building work, it is a nightmare and so messy!
Kate How are things with you? Did I say that I bumped into the triplet mum here, she is doing fantastic and I've given her my number, if she ever feels like adding 2 naughty toddlers to the mix one day xx

Hello all. I was starting to get break-thread-phobia

ALL - sorry I missed that Cora had bronchiolitis. Poor thing, and poor you - J had it at 9mo and was hospitalised for 5 days; I was traumatised by it. How is she now? Agree with LVB re. putting off the building work - I always know I've made the right decision when I feel immense relief having made it.

Cerub - come and tell all re. the party. You looked fab! Did you enjoy your time away?

Has all been a bit up and down here. I'm panicking about our architect situation, am so crap at confronting things and I think we are going to either ditch our original architect and go with another I've found, or ditch them both and leave it for a bit. The news sank in while we were away that we'd effectively wasted £3k on the plans that have been refused - the architect said that to re-draw new ones (we need to start from scratch really as have to rethink the whole scheme) she wants 50% extra on top of what we've already paid. We think she should have known we'd be highly unlikely to get permission granted and flagged that up before submitting - which she didn't. It's all a bit horrible and I'm dreading dealing with it. She's really lovely and has just had a baby, but I'm just not sure we should continue with her if we have our doubts. Bleugh.

Also DH and I had a dreadful week last week although it seems to have turned a corner. He's been excellent with the girls over the past few days, and seems to be growing in confidence re. taking them out on his own for little excursions.

Quick one mucky - ditch the architect, trust your gut!
I would find a builder/ architect combo if that makes sense. We spent a fortune on ours when we did the loft extension and our builder didn't follow the plans the architect didn't really follow up well and cost us a fortune.

I would ask everyone you know locally for recommendations, you do not want to lose money, some people are serial cowboys bitter voice of experience
Spend your money on a good project manager, you don't want to do it yourself honestly

Sounds like an awkward but necessary conversation is in order there mucky.

Can I just say, Day Two of potty training

& for Tarti

How's the diet going lavita?

Bravo tarti! We're still in nappies

Thanks both - LVB your post inspired me to go off in search of local recommendations and I've just spoken to a lovely husband and wife team locally - they're coming over for a chat on Wednesday. We did meet a second guy last week but OMG you couldn't have invented a more stereotypical architect than this guy - flamboyant scarf and corduroy jacket, imposing alpha male type. He really dominates our local area and everyone seems to use him, but I didn't gel with him at all and worried our house would end up looking like a glass and white gloss box. Which I don't want and can't afford

Good luck tarti - I am in despair as to how/when to attack the demise of nappies next. Juliet starts each day saying she wants to wear pants, which she wears until she wants a wee and then she asks for a nappy again.

In other news, the girls beds arrive tomorrow....

Very bad Tarti, I don't think living with an Italian I can really give up carbs, and I am very partial to a bottle of red wine.

You?

You really do not look like you have any weight to lose - I would continue to enjoy the red wine and pasta if I were you!
To be honest these days I'm less bothered by my weight than by my general haggard, old and tired appearance. Not much I can do about that

Just catching up with Downton, sob

Yes, c is much better thanks. She had it at 6wks too LadyM & was in hospital between Xmas & new year. Mainly just a nasty cough now, though she is teething like mad at the moment too.

Definitely made right decision about the work here - and might even save some money if we buy our new kitchen in the sale. Bad enough coordinating our work - thought of architects etc, even without the added worry of that convo is not good.

Still haven't seen Downton Tarti, but even I have not missed that storyline!

eek potty training tarti. My boys are miles off I think. H was 2 years 7 months and she cracked it completely in a week, so am planning on leaving the boys until after Christmas unless they really show huge signs (like taking themselves off and sitting on the toilet themselves!)

Second trial day at nursery for the boys tomorrow. The first 1 hour trial was OK apparently, though J was pretty teary. 2 hours tomorrow. They start properly next week. D all day Mon and Tues afternoon, J Mon afternoon and all day Tues. Granny is covering H in the afternoons ( she is in nursery school in the mornings) and one boy on alternate mornings. All very complicated! DH only working Mon and Tues until Christmas. Will be funny seperating the twins but I think it will do them good

Hope today went well at nursery for the boys Chesti?

Potty training going quite well - R seems to have cracked it for wees (but not poos, YUCK). M still having accidents but this evening twice asked and then successfully went so fingers crossed for tomorrow. Foresee more problems ahead though as R was crying at bedtime in her cot because she'd done a wee in her nappy (still wearing them for nights obvs) not quite sure how you deal with that when you've been ramming the message home all day...

Hope everyone well. In laws up this weekend, renting a cottage in Northumberland and have offered to have the girls for a night. Yes please! I'm not so bothered about the night but will be delicious to have a lazy Sunday at home in peace. Although obviously I'll miss them terribly

Work is doing my nut in, roll on half term

Yes, how did it go chesti?

I am having a period of Not Coping Very Well here... :( The girls are driving me utterly insane, and for some reason I am too tired/depressed to cope with it. Debating the point over every little thing, them refusing to eat (and smirking as they get down from the table or push the plate away saying "I don't LIKE xxxxx". They are SO tired too (I'm sure this accounts for most of their bickering) because they're not sleeping in the evenings till about 10pm - I know partly this is because we're in that horrible twilight zone where nothing seems right re. lunchtime naps - they had an hour at nursery yesterday, waking at 2.30pm and being crotchety and exhausted throughout the afternoon. Put them to bed at 7.30pm (this is a bit early for them) but they were a NIGHTMARE until 9.30, screeching and playing and full of high jinx. We have their beds here and I am dreading putting them up so much I fear the boxes will stay in our room for months on end :( I went in at about 9.30pm last night only to find Juliet had just been sick - copiously and EVERYWHERE, all over the floor, duvet, cot, pillow, toys - she had seemed fine before and was absolutely fine afterwards so I can only think it was being so unbelievably boisterous which caused it. They were sat there with red rings around their eyes and clearly exhausted but still refusing to lie down and try to sleep.

So today I'm thinking about not letting them have a nap, or maybe build the beds, be brave, and start this hideous transition into beds. Will I live to regret it; feels inevitable.

I think we're all feeling a bit overwhelmed. DH still not working and although he's been in good spirits most of the summer and talking about how he had decided to "take the summer off"; it's now reached that time where he has to start to get serious about getting a job - there's a risk of money running out and of missing the busy time before Christmas quiet sets in. I think I am anxious about that too.

Also the fact that we're settling them into the new nursery means we haven't really had any respite from them with their tiredy ness, the house is a tip, god knows what we think we're doing trying to plan for building work when neither of us has a job, and........argghh! Time to simplify things I think.

On that note and to that end, I have embarked on an Ebay spree. Not just buying things - I've resolved to buy most of the girls' winter clothes on there this year - but also finally having that clear out. Started listing things to sell last night, got as far as one pair of boots (which clearly states on the listings "check out my other items - having a massive clear out!") only to be distracted by Juliet's puking and my subsequent hanging-head-in-hands depression about everything. Bah.

(Apologies for me-me-me rant, just not sure how to ever get on top of things at the moment)

On phone so can't type much but sounds like you all have lot to deal with atm ladym. Can you try lying with girls? Not good long term but if it gets you all a but of respite? I(ve done it this week for naptime with boys.

Had an ok week here tho now we have fil back, my mum been up most of night with poorly tummy . Worse than the kids. Am off to hear her woes see her now while boys sleep.

How is Isla & your adjustments going Kate? Sorry, I meant to ask earlier.

Sounds like you have a lot going on LadyM. My advice would be (like you mentioned yourself) to get the sleep sorted again and hopefully everything else will fall back into place. Have you thought about separating the girls at bed times? Do you have enough room to put them in separate rooms? My godchildren (b/g twins) got separate rooms at about 18 months because they just kept each other awake. Otherwise you could put one to bed first and let them settle and keep the second one up for special one on one time? Alternate nights?
Fingers crossed your DH finds a jobs soon, it must be stressful and that is probably rubbing off on the girls as well. Have you thought about going back yourself and DH being a househusband? Worked really well for us.

The boys did okish at nursery on Wed. Still quite a few tears. God knows what D will think when he gets plonked there on his own on Monday for a full day .

Thanks gals. Actually chesti that is great advice re. putting them down separately - we often do/did that at lunchtimes although I'm not sure it would work in the evenings. Eve is often far more tired than her naughty sister...

ALL - also good advice re. lying down with them, I'm sure we'll have to resort to that sort of tactic. I was going to ask how you did things on holiday. We've always made sure we had travel cots when away, those days are over now I fear! Think I need Kate's expertise here; with her having gone through it with her DTrips - puts my woes into perspective. How are things Kate?

Humph. Ended up putting them down for a very early nap (11.45 - 1.30) so we'll see if they're tired at bedtime. I can't bear the sight of the giant lumpy parcels in our room and that is what's driving me to build their beds, although am so bloody anxious about it. The girls are starting to ask about their big beds all the time, because we stupidly told them we were getting them some.

Oh mucky sounds like you're having a right old time of it. When we got back from our summer holiday we had weeks of trouble getting them to settle and sleep through, so perhaps it's related?
If it were me I'd be inclined to get the beds put up and deal with it all in one fell swoop since they're being 'challenging' anyway, but I too am shitting it about the transition to beds so I do sympathise and I too will be looking to Kate for advice!

My thing at the moment is dummies. I am desperate to get rid of them but can't bring myself to. Keep looking at M's teeth though - she has slight overbite which I'm sure is getting worse. They only have dummies in cots, but still, I really hate them. M just really seems to need hers
I have started to instigate the odd chat about the dummy fairy/giving them to Father Christmas (met with blind panic from M), so we will see.

To be fair I was dreading potty training and that hasn't been anywhere near as bad as I thought - not that it's worked yet you understand, it just hasn't been as much hassle as I was anticipated - so maybe I should just grow a pair and ditch the dummies.

Thanks tarti. Girls are at their first full day of nursery today so I'm going to man up and build the beds. Have told nursery to give them just one hour of sleep - last night they went down very easily, and had only had an hour's (early) kip. It might also have something to do with not letting them have their stupid nightlights from Ikea which I bought them in an act of lunacy and let them have in their cots and which they spend hours making pretty rainbows with and gooning at each other across the room rather than sleep

Re. dummies. I think it's good to start to build up to it by talking about it - we did that and then Juliet started volunteering the idea that she was too big to have one and that she wanted to give it to a baby. We posted them in an envelope, and I got her to help parcel them up and actually put the envelope in the postbox. Then whenever she was upset about it we would talk about the fact that she had done that and that she had said she was too big to have a dummy. It was heartbreaking at times, because you can see the conflict in them that they want to be grown up but they don't want to let go of babyish things which comfort them. In retrospect, I'm sort of glad we did it but also had times of wondering if it just wasn't my own shame driving the decision to get rid of it - I knew it had to be done and hated how dependent she was upon it. She only used it for sleep but always seemed to manage to find one in the house and would often appear somewhere with one in her mouth, and it was getting worse and worse. Oddly enough, when we were on holiday she hurt herself a couple of times and from nowhere she started wailing that she wanted her "num num", so when we got back I rather bravely got one out of the cupboard and let her have it, which she now plays with very occasionally when she's "pretending" to be a baby. (I have now punctured it so it can't be used for proper sucking however...)

Glad all is going well with the potty training. I must must must get on with it...

PS: I have heard people puncture or slightly cut up the dummy as a way of getting rid of it too, because the child doesn't have the trauma of not being "allowed" it, but can't get the comfort properly and so stops using it.

Good idea about the puncturing although I'd have to be strong and do all of them at once... Urgh I feel sad for her just at the thought