The under/over/around 1 Twins thread for support, tips on how to survive and enjoy twin parenthood!

[DreamingOfPeace]

BB3: dcda non id girls Sept 2011 (plus ds)
TwelveLeggedWalk: DCDA DD and DS 14.09.11 (PFBs)
Tiggersreturn twin boys (?!) (plus ds age 5)
Wherearemyearplugs twins (plus ds)
Ceeveebee b/g twins 21.11.11, PFBs
minesapintofwine: non-id boys 02/02/2012. dcs 1&2/pfb on good days.
ClaireMarathonFeeder: Boy/girl twins born 08/02/2012, no3&4, dd1 (2001) and dd2 (2004)
rednellie nonID boys 13.03.2012 + DD 03.02.10
Lemele: id boys (plus ds)
Skitoo : DCDA Non ID Boys, 01.04.12 DC 1&2
DreamingofPeace: dcda non id boys, 4.4.12 DC 2&3 (DD Sept 2010)
beyoglu: dcda non id girls 21.4.12
Bigboobsatlast ID twin boys 30.04.12 DC #2&3 (DD Feb 2010)
Scollister mcda girls 3.5.12 plus DD age 4
Twin2makes4 mcda girls plus 2 ds,age 8 & 4

Again, sorry for mistakes, doing this from my phone!

Settle in ladies :)

Thank you mines for the and , all greatly appreciated. 'specially the

Conrats claire! Hope you all get settled into routines and the new house soon.

Hey talking of routines etc this was funny last night. My in-laws are here so after the girls had their 7pm feed and were asleep in their cots, we went out for dinner (just down the road). There was a family having a birthday dinner, including a baby girl who looked about maybe 6 months? So it's like 8pm, she has her bottle, then they bring in the car seat and put her in that and she dozes fitfully in this packed restaurant (with 90s techno playing out of the kitchen!) and we left at quarter to 10 and they were still there! And I thought, wow, OK, I am never second guessing myself again about whether we have a good routine with the girls or not.

In other news, our ones seem to be coming out of the Wonder Week 17/4 month sleep regression, and are a lot cheerier and now they reach out with their hands, and babble, and turn their heads to hear sounds. DT2 is chattering to herself in bed just now, and DT1 and DH are sleeping through it, bless them. Oh I love it. I've never been around babies and until now, looking after them reminded me of a sad thing, of looking after my dad when he was in the final stages of lung cancer. But (and I know this is kind of obvious) but it's like that in reverse. They come into the world these sorry little things, and every week something new opens up for them, something they can do for the first time. Yeah yeah, it's all hearts and flowers now, should have seen me three weeks ago when DT1 woke like 15 times between 7 and 11 and I was trying to watch Parade's End.

Hello all,

I'm reading with interest but we are really struggling here... I haven't managed to get more than 90 minutes sleep in a row in about a week (not helped as babies have colds), pretty much up hourly with one or the other.

So I'm too tired to have anything of interest to say.

Well done Claire, glad you've survived your move. Hope the girls like their new school

Sorry yours has been such a pigs ear rednellie, I am as ever amazed by your cheeriness despite it all

Also well impressed by those who've been away with baby twins

Though maybe we would contemplate it, if only we could get some sleep, sob!

Well I definately think teething is going on here they still don't have any at nearly 8 months and they wake intermittantly through night (sp?) dt2 is turning into a right grump so hoping for a toosy peg soon. They did sleep until 8am this morning though after all the 5.30 wake ups on holiday. Well dt2 did wake at 5.30 but we managed to feed him back to sleep which hadn't been successful when away. DH returns back to work tomorrw so am on my tod again not overly thrilled at the prospect of it it can be a bit mundane! On the plus side have to put my request in this week for part time hours when I go back to work in November. Looking forward to a bit of adult conversation and something to focus on whilst still having a few days at home with the dts, as long as I get good hours (which shouldn't be a problem but who knows could get tucked up yet!).

dream I've been away twice with the dts the first time they were more settled and though still hard work it's just nice to have a change so to me that is equal to a break-just go for it you've nothing to lose!

claire congrats on the move done you will settle in soon enough now the hardest part is done imo.

beyou I was wondering something about your post. You have a good routine that cannot be argued do you think the people in the restaurant did or didn't have a good routine?

Claire, congrats on moving in to the new home, you must be relieved, I hope you all settle in quickly. And stopping in hotels must have been tough, you obviously deserve the traditional bubbly for new home celebrations. What beautiful part of the country are you in now?

Beyoglu that's so lovely to read . It's blo*dy tough isn't it but so worth it when you get those heart tugging little moments. As for the little one who was dining out, I'm often jealous of those in a way, always think how much more I'd be doing if I only had one baby as I think I'd be way more relaxed about routine. Then I remember how special it is to have 2 and all the doubly special things I get with my little men.

Sorry to hear you're all poorly in the Dream house . Any way you can rope in some more help to give you a break?

Mines, hope a tooth pops out soon. I'm in the same boat with DH going back to work tomorrow, not looking forward to it, as it's just so much easier when there's 2 of you and you can man mark!! Hope you get the hours you want from work, when will they let you know?

Can I ask for those who have, when did you start weaning, did you take gestational age in to account? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Hey all just a quickie. Thanks for all the lovely messages of support, skitoo thanks for the empathy. Yeah, moving really does suck but it's almost over as we're finally rejoining Dh in London. I'm a bit apprehensive ad he keeps hinting at how tiny and scuzzy the hours is. I knew it would be and I know it's not permanent but he hasn't exactly filled me with confidence!
We've re-startedcweaning here. Going well after first few days. Normally I give them baby rice gloop on a spoon whilst they hold a segment of banana which they chew on. Dt1 is very neat with a much smaller appetite. Dt2 is like the cookie monster, food flying everywhere.

Anyway, I'm enjoying seeing their personalities develop and bar a few incidents they've been really enjoying their sister too.

Good luck with the unpacking Claire I am with you in spirit.

Congrats Claire and rednellie on the moving house i hope things settle for you quickly :)

dream i really feel for you i hope you and the little ones start to feel better soon :(

Thank you for the advice on the donkey seats skitoo i can definitely see my little ladies being happier awake in the seats, i took them food shopping over the weekend and thought id try the baby seats on the trolley and they were very active looking around and cooing away :)

I take my Girlies out to eat all the time?? I just work it round a feed, not sure i would feed whilst there though so just eat and go lol

Id really like some advice on my Girlies, they currently have gone back to 4oz and feed once though the night 3am-5am then wake between 6-8am and feed again and then 12, 4 and 8-9pm, is this enough??? Their 11 weeks and weigh 9lb7 and 9lb13. we really struggle between the last 2 feeds with colic/wind and they cry/scream between these hours and then they settle down after the last feed until the night feed, dt2 has slept through 3 times but dt1 always wakes with a grumbling tummy, any advice on how to get them both through the night :)

dream hoping for some good quality sleep for you soon!

mines sorry, I meant the kid in the restaurant had a bad routine! Like, surely if she was in the house she'd be in bed already, but now she's napping in this loud restaurant. skitoo's right, with a singleton it's probably nice to be so flexible but it would bring me out in hives! I'm very very protective of the sleep I they get.

skit not sure yet but hopefully not too long they are very flexible and easy going so fingers crossed. garding weaning I started at about 21/22 weeks on h/v advice getting started is a bit of a pain for a few weeks but there's no problem now we leave the house again now! Saying that dt2 is off his food and milk a bit but I don't force it on him he is a very healthy weight just those bloody flipping teeth!

Speaking of teeth dt1 appears to have one coming yay yay yay! He's a bit happier at the moment than he's been for a while but his brother is turning into the grim one (normally placid) hoping he is a lot quicker as dt1 has been screamy for ages and ages....

beyou regarding routines I am fairly much of the 'whatever works for you' approach'. The only thing I've stuck with is bedtime (they need a bath anyway and I like my evenings with dh) and feeding and (hopefully) napping at same time. Oh and when home napping in cots as opposed to on me! Tbh I'm a little bit over routines. Babies change their ways pretty frequently once I had mine sussed at 4-6 months they changed when they went into solids. I have learnt from that to not spend too much time (just a little bit of it-well something to do ain't it?) stressing over routines as it may all go out the window! My mil is always saying things like she never put her babies to bed early etc. Now that would not be my ideal but it was ok for her! Sorry if this all sounds a bit negative. I am not anti-routine as such and we have our little one-I really admire those who have them as they are so organised and know how much free time they have each day! I suppose I'm thinking this today as after the dts slept through till 6.30 for a month they have started waking at 5.30 and I'm feeding em back to sleep. They then sleep in till 8.15 again which means lie ins for me . Me and dh decided that anything before 6.30 would be a 'night feed' if we could get them back to sleep and anything after is get up time. Simply because after 6.30 dh isn't here to help me so easier to get up. So they do have a routine but it's tailored to our needs iyswim. What is everyone elses opinion on routines? Do you have one? What is it? beyou's routine seems good with lots of me-time. Can I have that one?!?

I feel the need to share a little holiday incident. On a lovely sunny day (relevant) we went to a beautiful harbour village walked all round and then fed dts and ourselves by rbour. DT1 decided to do a massive poo which leaked right through. We then had to walk (run) over to baby changing with dt1 eating his foot and therefore waving his bum at the gazillions of passersby with a spreading brown patch. When we got there-no spare clothes in change bag arrggghhh! (I blame dh) DT1 ended up in his car seat in just his nappy with a blanket over him whilst we ran to Asda yet again. Dh ran in and got a vest and shorts and after a quick dress we did our food shop. DT1 hasn't suffered for it he slept well in the car!

That sounds normal to me mine. All my kids are constantly in states of undress. Especially now DD has developed travel sickness. Yey pukey smelling car! And it's new (we bought a sharan in the end).

twins2 your two sound like they're doing fine for how young they are. My DD didn't sleep through till she was 9 months and my twins who are 6 months sometimes wake twice between 7pm and 6am but that's on a VERY good day (ie it never happens). Don't stress too much. [Grin]

mines, our routine's not dissimilar to yours! It moves around a fair bit, like this evening they were wrecked so they went to bed earlier, and as for feeding schedules... I basically have it that I start with the bottle at the same time, but then they can have what they want from them for an hour afterwards... and sometimes when they look hungry I'll give them one at the wrong time. About the only thing I really enforce is nothing to eat between half 4 and bedtime at 7 (so they will actually be hungry and take a decent amount) and that they have to be in bed between half 6 and 7. I guess what I meant was, they can break the routine but I wouldn't do it for my own convenience.

Coming across a bit smug now I realise. I don't mean it like that! They're OK sleepers, nothing outstanding, and we still have night feeds...

Well, we made it, they're one! Babies are well and truly partied out and I am beyond knackered.
We didn't do much celebrating on their actual birthday as we had lots of organising to do - I felt marginally guilty, but they won't exactly remember it . Also it was good because it kept me really busy and I was worried I might get a bit weepy over the whole premmie birth/NICU thing. So we had lots of friends here on Friday night, and I despite watching the clock to try and catch their actual time of birth, I did miss it, still we raised a toast to them with some lots of wine a few minutes later. Then we had a lovely naming ceremony at home on Saturday with around 25-30 people, and as it was - shock horror! - sunny, everyone had lunch out on the garden. Then the ungodlyparents all stayed for dinner, and the following day a few of us went to the zoo.
Despite grizzling a bit through the actual ceremony because they wanted to crawl not sit, then a small lunch-related meltdown, our two took it all remarkably in their stride, including having their playroom and bath-time invaded by lots of other babies!
No time to read catch up on everyone's posts just now, but quick to all. Just the 4000 loads of washing to catch up on now, 200 thank-you's to write and lots of leftover cake to eat.

Congratulations twelve I'm a bit weepy for you! What a true milestone you have reached very well done to you all and Happy 1st Birthday Little Twelves...

beyou I would be smug too! .

The dts have been decidedly grumpy devillike the last two days so we are heading off for an extremely long pm walk with my mum and the dog and taking food with us. Ok it's raining a little but rather than be stuck at home!

Oh and a bit of a sad day in the mines house. DH has made the decision to retire from his rugby playing days. He was hoping for one more season but has had too many injuries lately plus this recurring ankle injury and he can't afford time off work. He has been playing for 18 years+ twice a week training plus weekends it's going to be strange for the both of us! He is really really down about it! Trying to make him look on bright side the boys could end up there themselves in a few years if they want (and he's going to be taking them to all the matches now which means more time to myself on the weekend so it's a win-win as far as I'm concerned!) and he's on about possible doing reffing or they've offered him coaching so we'll see. He's today it's a big decision even for a smalltown player.

Have to go as am basically ignoring dt2 crying .

Oh thank you Mines. I had a proper blub on Sunday actually, partly post-party blues and also realising it was the anniversary of the day DS was ventilated and transferred and it all went to shit got all a bit traumatic.

Sorry to hear about your DH's injuries. DH and I used to do a lot of a sport as well, and I haven't been since before I got pregnant, and DH only once in the past year, so I know how much of a wrench it is. Made harder by the fact that both our work is connected to it too! Like you we've realised that the next big time committment is probably going to be when the DTs get involved in it, so best to enjoy a couple of years of free weekends while we can!

Sorry not to write more but have had a really naff day today, worst in a long time and can't help but think it was mainly my fault .

But just wanted to say congrats to Twelve, sounds like you had a wonderful weekend of celebrations .

Oh SKitoo, do you want to tell us about it, or chalk it up to experience and open the

Congratulations twelve what a massive milestone sounds as if you all had lots of fun :)

Sorry to hear your down skitoo it might make you feel better to share with us so we can remind you of all the good you do, and im are whatever has unsettled the babies is not your fault sending you a big hug :(

My Girlies have had a bad couple of days basically have gone back to not settling during the day and the crying/ screaming at night is getting worse!! Spoke to Dr who has prescribed colief so fingers crossed it works :( was feeling pretty shitty about it all until i was in tesco at checkout and babies were whinging and this old lady came up up and asked if she could have a look and said ooh lovely girls i have twin girls who are 45 now and they have brought me nothing but joy and she was so proud of them, and said she wished me the same :) how lovely xx

hope dream is ok I've not seen her post for a few days sending you lots of sleeping vibes and hoping your catching up on some zzzzz

skit it really does help to share and I bet you anything we've all got similar tales too we're all in the same boat weathering a storm with no paddles! You are not on your own at all.

twin I hope the colief works for you crying babies are so tough on the mother! How lovely of that lady too I can't get enough of when people say such mature and pleasant things, also she's been there and done that! One lady who's dts were grown up told me she remembered a time when they were both crying and she was stood on her doorstep in tears looking for any passer by to hold one for her! It shows that things get better of course and it's something every single mum has been through!

Oh yes twelve it does sound like a fun weekend!

claire and dream hope you two are feeling better, and I'm wondering where ceevee is? How are things with you?

Oh can't believe I forgot to mention that dt1 has a tooth! It's a nice little sharp one to bite me with! He has been so much happier the last few days than he has been for ages but unfortunately any peace is totally destroyed by dt2 who is cutting his first tooth badly plus he has a cold and an ulcer from running his tongue over his tooth so much so can't even use gel. This is where the joys of twins lie...alternate crying! (both together sucks too!)

Thanks everyone, feeling much better now, to be honest think more of it was in my head than anything else. In summary I had a bad nights sleep so think I woke up in a bad mood which apparently the little ones just fed off, we had a horrible day of grumpy babies who wouldn't nap which made them grumpier, which made me grumpier. Storm in a teacup really eh but I got it in my head that I was failing, things were never going to get better, blah, blah blah...poor DH .

So another day today and we had the babies from our twins ante-natal class round, 8 in total! Was lovely to catch up with the twin mummies and fantastic to see how all the babies have developed.

Ooh bet that was a hard decision for DH Mines, he's going to feel all lost come Saturday afternoon. Like your style for turning it in to a positive for you though . And a tooth! Is the whole teething phase as dreadful as it sounds, everyone I know seems to go through hell with it, so just thinking its going to be a nightmare with 2, either at the same time or for twice as long if different times, aaaarggghhhhh!!!

Twin2, hope the colief works. One thing that worked for my DT2 when he was younger and had awful belly problems was to lay him on his front. I was nervous to begin with but for ages now he has had all his daytime naps on his front as I couldn't get him to settle any other way.

Wondering what sort of a night we're going to have here...late this afternoon both the little ones started getting streaming noses and glassy eyes, so looks like they've got the cold going round. Both fed and went to bed fine but then DT1 started whimpering which turned in to howling, this never happens (am very lucky to have 2 good sleepers that you never hear of once they've gone to bed) so went in, settled, left, didnt settle so back in, couldn't settle, brought him downstairs and he really didn't look well and couldn't be comforted, so we decided to try the calpol (have only used it once before for DT1 after last lot of jabs), he took it and laid in my arms calming down and then promptly threw it and his feed all back up . Changed sleep bag, sleepsuit and put him back down and he seems to have settled himself back off to sleep - strange, we shall see.

Congrats twelve what a great milestone! I can see how emotional it was for you and I got emotional too just reading about it.

Sorry for radio silence but I've been spending the lazt few days with my head stuck in boxes... Trying to unpack after the move. Not easy with 2 babies even with mil here to help.

skitoo glad to see you're feeling better we all have those moments, it just goes with the territory unfortunately.

I think I had one of my scariest experiences as a mum the other day... I put the dts in their bath seats (with suction pads attached) and low water, thrn left to fetch something which took a bit longer to locate when I heard strange moaning sounds from the bathroom, ran in and dtg had managed to upturn herself!! Soo scary to think about what could have happened. Still shivering thinking about it.

That aside, we're settling in, dh and dd1 doing much better than dd2 and me, but it takes time.

V. tired so I'll wave goodbye.

(special wave to dream hope all ok)

Oh well done Claire for being there, and putting up with the mil in your new place and all the stresses of moving. I had a similar bath experience with DD- aged about 17 months, I left her sat playing in the bath and went to fetch something, heard a not-very-loud splosh, luckily raced back in and she'd slipped off the bath mat and was lying on the bottom of the bath, underwater, eyes and mouth open looking shocked. Plucked her out quick smart and no harm done but the terror lingers in my memory... Never left the bathroom since!!

skitoo, sounds like you're doing a great job. Lovely to have a good bunch of twin mums to chat to.

twelve, happy happy birthday to your little ones. I bet it was emotional. I found dds first birthday quite emotional but it helped as i was so distracted with killer morning sickness as i was 8-9 weeks pg with the dts by then and that was without the prem birth/ nicu experience. I've just found her second birthday a huge milestone of acceleration away from 'babyhood' and quite emotional too

Hope your girlies are doing better on colief twin2, I do think it helped my DT2 but too hard to give a bf baby and I gave up . How lovely of the lady in Tesco. Even my DT2 is much more settled now, he's 24 weeks. You'll get there, keep going and they do stop crying so much. I found the hours and hours of crying soul destroying, but literally 3 weeks ago I started dairy free for me and the crying is less and already the awfulness of it is fading a bit

I've hit the wall. Ongoing hourly getting up in the night with one or the other. I feel like I can't take much more, though what the alternative is I don't know. I'm fairly desperate now, finding I'm tearful in the evenings and nights, I'm feeling really exhausted. Been back to the doctor's for DT2, working theory atm is cows milk protein intolerance causing reflux so we are strictly dairy free for 1-2 months to see how he is, if he's really settled we're to cows milk challenge then. so far so good, no screaming with feeding now, but I'm still not 100% convinced he is cmpi.

Did you say your son is cmpi twelve? Have you got any hints/tips? If you've researched it, what do you think- his symptoms are/ were:
Incredibly 'colicky' and refluxy for his first 16-18 weeks, crying up to 6 hours a day
Projectile vomiting til bringing up bile as a baby, not very sicky now but clearly gulpy/refluxy still
No diarrhoea
Gave baby porridge-horrendous
Screaming at each feed, though settled in between feeds
I cut out dairy properly for two weeks. He stopped screaming at feeds
Ate a load of cake on dds birthday- harder to settle and more refluxy for a few days after that but ??? just coincidental/ maternal paranoia
He's chirpy between feeds even when I was cheating and eating dds cake and a bit of chocolate here and there...
Also, I asked re calcium supplements for me as they're ebf, doctor didn't know so not on any. She didn't give DT2 anything else to try for his reflux. Given up on gaviscon, didnt help.
Am I clutching at straws, looking for something to 'fix' to help me cope or could he be cmpi?!
As for the Incredible Non Sleeping Baby, DT1, I don't know what I'll do...

Sorry for the long me me me post, bit miserable ladies...

HI Dream
Yep, we went lacto-free with DS.
Basically in NICU neither of them would tolerate fortifier in expressed BM, so they moved onto 75 per cent ebm and 25 percent formula, and then when my supply didn't catch up with demand those ratios changed (but my mind is so scrambled I can't remember what to!).
They were sickly from Day 1, so they very quickly went onto Domperidone and Ranitidine, presumably as they were also so tiny their digestive systems needed some help.
ONce home I would bf, then give a small formula (prem formula) bottle with the reflux meds in, then a second top-up bottle of as much formula or ebm as they fancied (desperately trying to get milk into them). Dd seemed ok on it, but often Ds would just puke RIVERS of milk back up, it would've taken an hour to get it into him, then he'd fall asleep. Hellish. All milk in bottles also had thickener in to try and get it to stay down.
Even when he stopped puking we would often feed DS then put him in a bouncer to stay upright while I fed DD, and he could scream for almost an hour while I fed her - really writhing and turning into the chair to try and squirm away from the pain.
We phoned NICU in tears a few times and they suggested Comfort Milk (This was before the new reflux milks were around), which seemed to make only a very marginal difference. We also pushed his D&R meds up to maximum doseage.
But it still wasn't solving the problem, so around 5-6 months (he came home at 7 weeks so 4 months of trying) I was having a chat with our wonderful paediatrician on the phone, and we basically came out with 'or it could be lactose intolerance' simultaneously. We talked about me going lacto-free, but he wasn't taking a huge proportion of his milk by bf by then anyway, so we moved him onto Lactofree formula (Aptamil Pepti 1) and tapered off the bf. I stopped around 7 months (Dd stopped around 5 months).
No immediate overnight change on the lacto-free, definitely still some discomfort after feeds, but then we also started weaning, there was much less puking, and there was stage by stage a gradual improvement. Then moved onto more solids and Aptamil Pepti 2, and he started being more upright and mobile. I can't remember the exact time I noticed he'd stopped puking, but he was pooing loads so we stopped the Domperidone about 2 months ago (I htink, might've been less). I was nervous about stopping the Ranititine and brought it right down to one dose a day before bed, a few bad nights meant we kept it going but I think that was coincidence, and we stopped that entirely a couple of weeks ago.
Through weaning I kept him off all dairy and gluten until 8+ months, then gradually introduced gluten and Lacto-Free products (cheese & yoghurt) here which he seemed to tolerate well.
About a month ago we tried him on some brie (accidentally) and he was fine, and some yoghurt (deliberately) and he was grumpy but not pukey, so I'm still not sure if he is lacto intolerant or not, but he has been fundamentally reflux free since 7-8 months.

Sorry, that is a MONSTER post, but I wonder if any of it will sound familiar. The screaming after feeds but settled in between them in your post certainly was.
I will warn you that lacto-free formula is VILE and my latest battle has been getting him to take it at all (now they've turned one I've basically said 'Oh sod it!'), and we were on nowhwere near 600ml a day for ages. But he loves his solids and is thriving. and not puking or screaming

dream apologies as this is going to be a run and go post, but please do take calcium supplements if you're going dairy free. Really important as you're tandem nursing.

Also, maybe try and get referred to a dietician and paed if you are properly concerned. Dietary causes of things are so hard to work out you need prof guidance imo.

Right, off to toddler wrangle.

Thank you so much for the thorough post twelve. Some of it does sound similar, though less exreme. I'd say DT2 screams for 10 minutes after/ during food now for example. Not that its not a distressing 10 minutes, when the baby is clearly hungry, but feeding is also a grim process for him. An hour . That puts it in perspective. And yes to rivers if vomit earlier, projectile and profuse, but as he merely possets now and doesn't have diarrhoea.. oh its so hard to know!! I guess I only will by doing this dairy free period then dairy challenging. We are currently thinking he might be cows milk protein intolerant, not lactose intolerant, but who knows?!

Thanks rednellie. Yes, im concerned about the calcium. Ny mum is a dietetics secretary and asked the paeds dietician for me, who said I'd need prescription strength calcium as I'm ebf twins- hence my dash to the GP. She didn't know though, but is currently waiting a paeds dietician appointment for her own son for exactly the same problem she says, on 4th October, so she said she'd ask about calcium supplements then then ring me. Seems a bit of a wait to me... I rang my hv too, but she didn't know about calcium supplements either...