The under/over/around 1 Twins thread for support, tips on how to survive and enjoy twin parenthood!

[DreamingOfPeace]

BB3: dcda non id girls Sept 2011 (plus ds)
TwelveLeggedWalk: DCDA DD and DS 14.09.11 (PFBs)
Tiggersreturn twin boys (?!) (plus ds age 5)
Wherearemyearplugs twins (plus ds)
Ceeveebee b/g twins 21.11.11, PFBs
minesapintofwine: non-id boys 02/02/2012. dcs 1&2/pfb on good days.
ClaireMarathonFeeder: Boy/girl twins born 08/02/2012, no3&4, dd1 (2001) and dd2 (2004)
rednellie nonID boys 13.03.2012 + DD 03.02.10
Lemele: id boys (plus ds)
Skitoo : DCDA Non ID Boys, 01.04.12 DC 1&2
DreamingofPeace: dcda non id boys, 4.4.12 DC 2&3 (DD Sept 2010)
beyoglu: dcda non id girls 21.4.12
Bigboobsatlast ID twin boys 30.04.12 DC #2&3 (DD Feb 2010)
Scollister mcda girls 3.5.12 plus DD age 4
Twin2makes4 mcda girls plus 2 ds,age 8 & 4

Again, sorry for mistakes, doing this from my phone!

Settle in ladies :)

Good afternoon ladies!! I haven't read through all the messages so hoping I'm in the right place as I'm new too mumsnet. Had a scan last Monday where 2 sacs and 2 yolk sacs were seen and I'm going back on Monday for a second scan too hopefully see foetal poles/heartbeat/s I'm literally so scared that I will be one of the like 5-10% who experience vanishing twin syndrome! It just seems too lucky for me to have been blessed with twins I already have a 26m old dd although we do have two sets of non identical twins in the family so I can only hope that works in my favour I will be 6+ 5 at Mondays scan. Xxx

Your right red the worst thing to do would be to go against all advise go for my vbac and there be a problem.

I would never forgive myself ...

How you feeling nat? Exciting isn't it?!

I'm absolutely over the moon something so special has happened to me :-) and even more excited of the possible of girl/boy twins!!! Hehe does anyone have any experience/knowledge of vanishing twin syndrome?

Sorry butterfly, I don't think I expressed myself very well. What I actually kind of meant was go for it! I was going to have a double breech birth and I did loads of research, changed doctors, got her to do research and decided based on risks and certain circumstances that it was worth going for. In the end the awkward pair turned head down, then up, then finally down just before I had them at nearly 38 weeks and so, thankfully, I ended up with a very normal drug free birth. I just meant, listen to yourself as well as all the expert opinions. And sometimes experts disagree...

WElcome Natalie. We all know that feeling well when you find out you're having twins, especially as lots of us have older DC too. This is a great thread to get info from Mums with toddlerish aged twins, and there's an ante-natal thread that we all started on that's still going with the latest crop of people pregnant with multiples. Here it is. I was on that very board this time last year worrying about the boys being breech! It's a good place to find women in similar circs. There's also a board with some mums of older twins, that's all the D'ya ever ones.

HTH (Hope that helps!!)

Haha mines re ironing the babygros, I did that too!! I was signed off work and put on bed rest at 20 weeks so I was seriously bored. Haven't
Touched the iron since the dts arrived...

Congrats to butterfly and Natalie

Hello! May I announce myself as a new mummy of scrummy twins! Matilda (6lbs 10oz) and Dylan (5lbs 7oz) were born by c-section on 13 February and after a prolonged 11 days in hospital we are all now home and very happy! I will upload a pic of these adorable creatures to my profile shortly :-)

The c-section was fine, but by the end of the day I had developed a haematoma so had to go in for a further operation to sort that out. I think this must have slowed my healing a bit, and certainly it made small matters like constipation, trapped wind etc worse afterwards! Also, I developed a UTI and a minor (fingers crossed) wound/womb infection in the last few days in hospital for which I was on IV antibiotics and now tablets. Feeling better already, even though I think I'm overdoing things a bit round the house.

But the main reason we were in so long was that the twins fed poorly in the early days and were jaundiced, necessitating a four-day stay in the low dependency unit for fattening up. By day five M. had lost 12% of birth weight and D. 7%. After four days in the LDU we were pretty much back up to birth weights, thanks to every third feed being intubated (DH and I did the others by bottle). This time last week was a very dark time, feeling like an utter failure as a mum and distraught at having the babies living in a different ward to me and DH (we were blessed with a family room), but a week later and we're home, they are taking huge feeds, and already after just a couple of days we've got into a nice routine. the lack of sleep is punishing, as I'm sure many can relate to, but we're slowly moving form 3 to 4-hourly feeds which feels very exciting!

I am trying to express. The night before last I leaked for the first time overnight, which was so cool! The MW brought over a Medela double pump yesterday and I managed 50mls - a PB! Very little this morning, but I'm still trying to encourage my meagre supply rather than feed them entirely off it! Getting them fed is the priority though, and if I can add some breast milk into the formula mix I'll be a happy lady.

I'll post this across a couple of threads as my poor brain probably can't cope with re-writing!

PS I'm about to start Domperidone (sp?) to encourage lactation, on the advice of local breastfeeding clinic. Anyone have experience of this unlicensed but seemingly effective drug?

Congratulations M!
Lovely names and super weights, well done you!
My two arrived at 30 weeks, and my supply wasn't up to the job after the first few days, so we were tube feeding/expressing/bottle feeding etc too. Be really kind to yourself, it's a really hard way to feed one baby, let alone two!
I also took Domperidone, and it kept my supply going enough to enable me to mix feed until 6 months, my two were also not great feeders either, and we had to use shields which probably impacted my supply too. I didn't suffer any bad side effects after the first purple of days (it makes you go to the loo quite a bit at first!) and neither did the babies, although they were on their own doses of it too for reflux.
I noticed that feeding would go in phases, where sometimes my supply would catch up with their demand and they'd take less formula (we did bottle top ups after each feed. Because they also had meds in each feed) and sometimes I'd need to increase the amount of formula.
You'll need lots of support in order to find time to pump as well - the double electric medela is great though, so get comfy with tv, snacks etc, and get someone else to take responsibility for washing bottles and prepping feeds etc. I found an electric steriliser for bottles then. Big Milton tub for pump parts worked well.
Basically have a baby or a pump on your boobs as much as humanly possible for a while and hopefully your supply will catch up! Good luck!

Couple, not purple!

Congratulations Mandasand! Well done you and good luck with getting feeding.

No experience of domperidone, but just to reassure you a little - one of mine lost 10% and the other 11% in the first week, both were jaundiced and I've carried on feeding them and they're now almost a year old and still EBF. It is possible, just keep on keeping on, the early days are so hard, but you are doing brilliantly. The best thing for your supply is just to feed them - expressing is great, but there's no replacement for a baby to get your boobs pumping out milk.

Congratulations and welcome to the wonderful tiring world of having multiples!

help!!! Have 3 week old twins and DTS is so hard to get to sleep particularly In The evening. I am BF after a rocky start and neither twin is keen on a bottle at all. Even top up bottle is barely touched by DTS and it just seems to take way too long to be of any actual use.

Any tips for managing the witching hours between 7 and 11/12/1/2/3!?! If I could get him over at that time and get a few hours sleep then the rest of the night is much more manageable. I son't mind the cluster feeding but he is tired and snoozy but just won't be put down. Then he gets upset and will comfort suck for literally hours and hours. DH is going back to work in a week so I will have to manage more of the nights on my own.

Thanks for the congrats and experience sharing, rednellie, thereis and twelve!

Yes, I think I've been a bit disheartened about pumping because it's an extra tiring thing on top of everything else. I've been putting the babies on the boob before feeds, just to associate my boobs with their formula a bit, but then begins the lonely task of pumping in another room after the feed. I've had to have a chat with DH because he hates having the heating on all day and night (as, in normal circumstances, do I) but it's bloody freezing at the moment and I got a bit annoyed the other middle-of-the-night having to sit here on my own, in the cold, attached to the machine! Also, he makes a big deal of when he does a night feed solo (I seem incapable of waking up for the 0130-ish feed) so I've been making more of a meal about the hours I'm putting in on the machine (despite the 'little and often' advice to do 8x15mins I don't get anything coming through till 15 mins in, and then I'm loathe to stop so I end up being on for 30-40mins at a time ? and then we're only talking 10mls max per session!) As a result I'm only doing 4-5 times a day, despite best intentions. DH, who is still on pat. leave for another two weeks, is absolutely great - I don't wish to put him down - but I have needed to remind him how tiring and slightly soul-destroying pumping is. Last night he sat up with me massaging my lower back through the session after the 0400-0430 feed, and that was really, really good and helpful. More of that, methinks! Oh, and I would love to sit in front of the TV with the pump on but we have no curtains in our lounge yet (having had the double glazing replaced a little too close to the c-section!!) That would be a sight for the passers-by

Hope everyone's doing well today!

Hi mandas

You are doing a great job, it is so difficult in the first few weeks and expressing on top of that makes it even harder, like you said.

Mine had just breast milk until week 4. I would put them to the breast but being premature meant they were very slow and kept falling asleep so I would express and bottle feed to keep them topped up. I had a good supply of milk, what I didn't have was time! There was so much to do and I found that getting up or staying up to pump was very very difficult. After week 4, I had two trips to A&E for gall stone attacks & was on morphine drips then at week 6 I had my gall bladder out. I couldn't BF on the morphine and medication I was on so decided then to FF. I am glad I did, I felt instant relief when I didn't have to make time for expressing. I am not suggesting you should do the same, but I know how you might be feeling. Don't put pressure on yourself, take it day by day.

While mine were in the SCBU and I was expressing at home, the nurses suggested taking home an item of their clothing to smell while I was expressing, I found this worked for me. If you can express near them so you can see them, this will help. Perhaps you could feed one and express from the other breast, I know this works well for some women.

Keep up the brilliant work, it gets easier. Mine are 5 months old tomorrow and it is completely different now. We are getting 8-10 hours solid sleep and they are lovely, happy contented babies. We are weaning them in 4 weeks time!

free apologies, I only just saw your post.

I didn't BF for long so I don't have any advice unfortunately. I hope someone can come along and give you some tips soon.

Do you swaddle them? I found mine slept well swaddled and I kept them swaddled until 8 weeks then they went into Gro Bags. Also, putting something that smells of you near him may help too. Do they sleep in moses baskets or are you co-sleeping? I put mine straight into cots, they slept together initially but I separated them when they were 6 weeks old.

Mand. Well done you.
I know twins are a bit of a culture shock, but to be honest your DH just has to man up for these night feeds! It's tough, but it's temporary, and its much easier if you can pull through together.
You NEED to be warm, comfortable and relaxed when pumping. A hot flannel, or the pump parts fresh out of the steam steriliser sometimes really helped supply - it makes that much difference. You can't pump cold! I found having a blanket over my shoulders and duvet over my legs helped, and then a glass of water and tub of flapjack to hand, and a laptop to watch tv by. Some people say you should think about your babies, but I found it better if I just zoned out and completely relaxed thinking about something else, so I watched a lot of Kirstie & Phil on 4OD ! Do you have an iPad or similar?

Also something which REALLY helped was a La Leche League diagram of how to massage your boobs before expressing, I've never been able to find it on google, but I'll have another go.
Also La Leche League, TAMBA and Bliss have lots of leaflets on pumping/feeding multiples etc which may have some info you find helpful.

Free, congratulations to you too!

Have you tried slings?
DD would NOT be put down in the evening when she first came home from hospital either. We got two slings, she preferred this one and DS preferred a wrap style, and each wore whichever one was grouchy while we had our dinner. DH once had a panic because he thought DD had a horrible rash on her head... turned out to be a baked bean . Then if they did sleep we put them in a moses basket in the living room so they were near us, or I curled up in the armchair and fed one for as long as it took. Sling were basically how we ate for a good few weeks though!

mand this is the leaflet. Strongly suggest you either order it or phone up and see if they'll send you a pdf - if you explain you're desperately trying to pump for twins I'm sure they'll help out.
I never managed to properly hand express any quantity, but the massage bit really helped get flow going before I put the pump on.

Thanks Gardenpixies

Funnily enough, DTS wasn't too bad last night. He went down at 1ish with white noise! Slept til 5 then went back to sleep about 6ish I think (I can't quite recall!) the secret was to get him v v calm and then put him down with the white noise up really loud that way when his eyes flicked open, he was immediately distracted/zoned out. We also swaddled his body - he likes his arms too much to do them!

On the other hand, DTD was a menace. Why do they tag team like that?! Argh. DH Had to finally take her downstairs and let her sleep on his chest at 2.30 then she wanted a feed at 5.30 as she just wouldn't sleep at all i ghe cot - she was so uncomfortable. Her wind is really bad but we get into a cycle of feeding/winding/waking her up/needing another feed to calm her down and the whole thing starts again! Argh! But a glimmer of hope as she does really love her sleep so I think we'll get there with her eventually. E're using infacol - any other hints on wind?

Free good to hear DTS slept well last night.

Try wind often during a feed, I would say 3/4 times per feed when they are very little. I wind on my knee and also rotate them on my knee in a circular movement then rubbing their back helps to bring up the wind. When they get to nearer 10 weeks, I found a very light jiggle on my should helped to encourage the wind up. It all seems so long ago now but it was only a few months back. Time really does go quickly!

Another thing we did with Infacol is put in in their bottles rather than straight into their mouths. It completely dissolves the bubbles and I found them to be much less windy. NICU nurse told me to do that.

White noise is something I should have said! I have a Sleep Sound Machine I bought of eBay, I set it to the Waterfall sound and it works so well for them! It also blocks out noise from downstairs which helps them sleep better. We are still using it now so it was a good buy.

Sending you some sleepy dust :)

free - this is probably not what you want to hear but they sound totally normal for 3 week old babies. They basically want to sleep on or near you. So sling or you sort of go to bed when they do.

For the first month or so I would just go up with them about 7pm and sit in bed with lights low nursing nursing nursing and then I'd put them down. That way you start getting them to associate nighttime with darkness and you get to cluster feed them in a quiet relaxing setting. I read a lot of books!

Best tip I ever had was to put a hot water bottle in the crib so when you out them down its warm not cold. Really helped.

Can I ask a stupid question: why pump in the middle of the night when you could feed them? Is it because that's the only time to do it? It just seems so soul destroying and surely doesn't encourage supply as well as just feeding. Pls tell me I'm talking shit if I am!

garden you're right, expressing feels like such a chore at the mo and it's a bit soul-destroying not to have very much forthcoming in the first place - though I'm currently up to 10 mls for both boobs per 40-minute session on the machine, which is as good as it's ever got :-( Really interesting to hear that you felt instant relief when taking the expressing out of the mix of stuff to do each day. I sense very much that it would be the same for me. I don't have a great amount of guilt about this, although I'd be v.v. pleased if things were different, mainly because of the antibodies etc. I'll definitely see if the Domperidone makes a difference. I have to wait till my two courses of antibiotics finish on Sunday before I can start that.

And, thank you for saying that life gets easier! The sleep deprivation is killing. They were sleeping through between feeds for a few days when we left the hospital but now one at least cries or grizzles for most of the time between feeds. So difficult to know what's wrong and sometimes we have success offering a bit more formula, or rocking the crib, or winding, or giving a dummy, but a lot of the time they just want picking up. In SCBU they said this overstimulated them so we're worried about holding them too much. I don't know about this from what others say on here?

Twelve, thanks for the reminder to massage with a warm flannel. DH has capitulated to having the heating on 24/7 and it makes such a difference overnight! Will look out for the advice on pumping / feeding multiples - thanks! And get on to LL about the leaflet. Feel daft for not having done so already but feel in a constant state of crisis management at the mo!

rednellie I pump in the middle of the night because I try (and totally fail!) to do it after every feed and I often feel as if I'm playing catch up as I'm nowhere near the supposed minimum of 8 times per day. So I just do it when I can (like now, using the cut-a-hole-in-an-old-bra device!)

Oh, re Infacol, I've never heard of it. Is it like gripe water? And where can you get it? I remember giving gripe water to my brother when he was wee. Our girl burps often and like a bloke, but then squirms a lot in the crib as if she is still in discomfort, but our boy is less forthcoming, so I think both could do with something.

mandas you can buy Infacol in the supermarket or in the pharmacy.

Personally, and I think a lot of people would disagree with me, I feel they can be overstimulated. Picking them up constantly and cuddling them for hours on end is not what we did. Ours were in incubators for the first week of their lives so were not used to constant picking up etc. Babies need to eat and sleep. Obviously cuddles are important and our girls get plenty of them but picking up a small baby whenever it squeaks is not something we did. Our girls don't like to be cuddled to sleep. We have lots of cuddles in the day and before bedtime, which they love, they snuggle into us and DT1 sucks on my clothes but when they have had enough, they whinge and don't stop until they are put into their cots. We have never done controlled crying with our babies.

I remember posting on the Twins Ante Natal thread a few weeks after mine were born and saying they make so much noise when asleep or trying to sleep. It is quite normal for very small babies to be noisy. Ours became much quieter when asleep around 12-14 weeks. Try introducing a comforter. DT1 uses a muslin and likes to rub her face against it, DT2 has taken to thumb sucking to comfort herself.

You will find what works for you and your babies and you will soon be a pro. DP is constantly amazed that I know their different cries. Soon you will be able to tell when they are windy, needing a poo, tired or hungry and it will become second nature.

Maybe it's harder to come through as you've already fed the babies? I know I only ever had luck expressing if I either got the babies to start me up (as it were) or if I expressed rather than fed them. Please don't judge your supply on what you can express as it in no way represents how much the babies can get out.

Anyway, we're all cheering you on. It does get better!

Oh god, WHY won't they sleep at the same time!?!? Managed to get DTS down in record time at 12.30ish with white noise. Now DTD won't come off the boob at all. Gah!

With grunting babies, do you just leave them til they cry or try to help them get comfy? She is still v windy (nappies are fine, yellow BF poos, small but certainly at least 2 a day). Imfacol helps a bit and winding throughout feeds but it's v hard when tandem feeding and she is still grunting and waking herself up lots.