Under 1s twin post-natal group? Should we have one? Who's in?!

[PeelingmyselfofftheCeiling]

The antenatal group is nearly full, any graduates fancy joining forces to compare

I didn't realise your DD doesn't really talk yet dream. I find it fascinating how kids develop at different rates. At 26 months, talking/counting/mental intelligence is where my DS is brill but he is rubbish at physical stuff, can hardly climb up anything, he learned to sit up late, walked late, is pretty shy, and spent about 2 minutes trying to get down ONE step in the garden today... The twins on the other hand are already moving around (kind of) and trying to sit up!

It's horrible to read about all the bad sleeping/HFandM etc. Rubbish sleep is rubbish. I wish there was something we could do!

Don't read past here if you're one of those, but...

Mine settle sooo well now! DS was terrible, exactly as you guys are describing, so to be honest it's fab to not have that coz I've had it all before, but I guess some of you had that with your first too... sorry

In more detail I basically feed them as soon as I put DS to bed (often with crying crying CRYING from the DTs, and like tonight so much so that Jacob won't feed coz he's so upset :( )... but once I eventually get them to feed, they feed for 20 mins or so (I don't time it..) then wind, lie them down again and let them fall asleep. Leave them for 5-10 minutes then put them in their cot; they usually drift off, occasionally need a cuddle but that's about it...

I feel guilty coz some of you guys have it so hard but after doing this on my own for 3 1/2 months I guess I'm due a bit of a break!

We're flying back the middle of August, only 5 more weeks here. Eek. I'm going to really miss it and the weather's finally sorted itself out and now I'm being reminded on a daily basis of how lovely Van can be. Also, we're almost at the 2 year mark when you really start settling and having good friends....but my resolve is strong, the UK is still very much our home and I want my Mum to come and take over my house on the odd occasion

Your DD sounds so cute dreaming, maybe having the boys around will encourage her to speak too? It's like she can entertain them etc/needs an audience?

They are fascinating lemele, DD is 22 months and though she could say daddy and mummy a while ago she didn't use them appropriately as words iykwim. I'd say in the last 3-4 weeks she's mastered daddy, boo, baa (for a sheep), bye-bye... And I do that!! She's got very good understanding though, and can appropriately use about 50-60 signs (we did a British sign language course) so can actually communicate what she wants very well, tell you what she's thinking of etc. She knows loads of food signs, animals, hot, cold, hungry thirsty, sore, baby, crying (!)... I think the boys are encouraging her, I hope they are rednellie! She was an early walker (10 months) but never crawled (she learnt to crawl 4 days ago, much excitement here!). Her climbing isn't great as she never got the idea of all fours/ hands down but has come on in leaps and bounds recently. I am determined the boys will crawl, but still doing badly at getting in enough tummy time as they're not keen...

Hooray for your boys lemele, you deserve some better evenings. Shame there's still so much crying, soul destroying...

I also feel rubbish as after pronouncing gaviscon useless ages ago I'd pretty much given it up. Tonight in desperation we gave some to Ben for his 'colic' as he did seem in real pain, was hysterical and miserable/puking if flat. miles better, so clearly reflux is still a big issue here. Sigh. And terrible he was buggied round the night before when he quite possibly just needed his medicine

5 weeks will fly by red, if only Canada was a little closer to home or your mum would.emigrate!!

hey Dreaming, glad the white noise is having some effect! I think that's the last thing I'll be weaning ours off of - trying to settle them without the jiggling now, then we'll drop the swaddling. Actually I say "settle them", DT1 falls asleep within about 30 seconds of touching the mattress, it's DT2 we need to get sorted.OTOH, DT1 has started doing her nighttime grunting from about 4.30 onwards, it used to coincide with feeds so we thought it was colic, but it's now starting about 90 minutes after last night feed and carrying on almost till morning! I'm going to put it down to 12 weeks unsettledness (beyoglu's new book/pet theory of the week is The Wonder Weeks, says they get unsettled just at a spurt of development, and there are ones at 12 and 19 weeks for a 39 week baby) as it just started up a few days ago. As she doesn't cry through it we could totally ignore it if one of us wasn't always sleeping in their room to do the night feeds! Yes we have no life, it is true.

Ah beyoglu, I dream of putting these two in another room for that very reason! DD was a terrible grunter and snuffler and I put her in her own room from 4 weeks! I would have done the same with the boys if I had a room to put them in. Bah.

But good news - DT2 has been settling fine again so we've had a few nights of them going down at 7pm and staying down till 2/3am and then again till the morning. I normally end up with one or other of them in bed with me by the morning and I'm never entirely sure how that happens!

We've also had a couple of lovely days, going out and about and everyone having fun. It feels as if 'normal life' has resumed. Might not last, of course, but its been lovely. We even had an afternoon in our friends hot tub! Got to love North Americans.

How's everyone doing? How are all the people weaning? I can't imagine my two eating real food - they're not sitting or rolling or doing anything yet. But they chatter all the time so I'm thinking they'll be like DD and Lemeles LO and be talkers rather than walkers...

Right, can you get your DT2 to talk to my DT1 then rednellie??? He's driving me to distraction, not to mention exhaustion. Up every hour after midnight, can't self settle, shouts and screams if just put in the cot and I can't leave him or will end up with DD and DT1 and dh awake. I try and jig to sleep but I'm so tired I just end up feeding to sleep then allowing him in with me til morning.... Help?! Any ideas anyone? Our house has no sound protection at all, stud wall between boys and DD... Dh in box room, so stud wall between him and boys. Argh?!?!?!

I'm getting desperate...

So glad to hear your DT2 is settling again and 'normality' has returned red. Mine aren't rolling or sitting but I'm thinking of weaning early ish to see if it helps the reflux. My friends baby was weaning by now on the EAT study, so who knows if that'll change advice so we all go back to 13 weeks for weaning?!

dream, if they change the advice to 13 weeks once these guys are older I'm going to be sooo hacked off! Would love to wean right now. If nothing else, they might pick up a bit more weight if they were eating solids (they have appetites like sparrows the two of them).

Hey all.
Lack of sleep and general grumpiness here too, except it turned out DD was actually a bit poorly and ended up in hosptial overnight being monitored for bronchiolitis. Oh dear. The nurses were trying to swab her for RSV and couldn't remember what to do because they only usually do it in winter, this summer is so RUBBISH!

Dreaming weaning has helped our ds with reflux to an extent, but hard to tell if it's just age/being vertical that's done more for it tbh. What meds are they on these days?

Those of you with chatterboxes, what type of noises do you get? I keep saying yes when HVs ask me if they're babbling, but my current neurosis is that maybe, actually, they're not much

Lol, it'll be a way off if advice does change beyoglu, they're followed up for 3 years, so my friend's baby who's on it is only just 1, then all the analysis. It'll be too late for us. It's looking at allergies etc, and early introduction of allergenic foods. So 3 months they have cows milk yoghurt, not sure what next, but its wheat, dairy, peanuts, sesame and something?? before 6 months. All babies on the study have to be ebf I think. My friend was saying she couldn't give any formula even if she wanted to anyway. But my point is to get a huge study like that with about 3000 babies in it through an ethics committee there must be no conclusive evidence for weaning at 6 months, as if there was and they expected early weaning to cause harm, through unsettling guts, allergies or whatever, it would never get permission to go ahead by ethics. I'm not planning on doing anything wild, but I weaned DD at nearly 20 weeks as she was so keen. She was on 3 meals a day by about 3 weeks later, and I was stressing about how much she ate as everything I'd read said they'd have a teaspoon or so and she was eating whole portions of 2 ice cubes of fruit straight away and crying for more!! Ha. Not any more, fussy little madame.

twelve, just on gaviscon and infacol. Funnily enough, DT1 who is bigger and way stronger is on nothing now. He has better postural control and better head control so ?? his little stomach spinchter is also stronger?! DT2 has always been much worse though. Yet he's sleeping better.

DT1 is doing my head in. Absolutely screams if put down, ever, so poor dt2 getting much less attention and goodness knows what I'll do about DT1's 1-2 hourly wakings all night... Jiggling and his white noise cd don't get him to sleep in 10 min which is all I have the patience for in the night so I'm feeding the little tike all night and even then if I move the little beggar he wakes up so he keeps sleeping with me... I never wanted to co sleep, but I'm at a loss what to do...

DD babbled a lot from an early age- the hv even noted it in her red book as she was impressed. I took it as making any kind of 'communication' noises- bababa, but also coos and gurgles. Anything where she was making eye contact and trying out a range of noises (mind you she's a bit behind with her speech now, but great communication with her signing and understands most of what you say and can sign/ respond appropriately so I'm not worried, honest...) . I looked into it a bit as Dh's brother was speech delayed and both his children are so i was a bit worried its something in their genes... The specialist hv I used to work with lives round the corner though and she says my DD is fine so shelving that worry for now :)

How's being back at work going tigger?

& how long have you got left before you get your couple of months with your family BB3?

Oh, and I hope your DD is better now twelve, its grim when they're ill, and must have been horrible having her admitted...

twelve, with DD she was blowing raspberries and cooing and gagagaing from about 5/6 months. She said her first word (cat) at 9 months. She's now saying 'whilst' and when I asked her if she was sure she didn't want pasta she replied "Not at all."

The boys are giggling, the make aaaaoooh and gurgling noises. DT1 sort of makes noises inbetween crying and shouting, sort of argh sounds. But tbh, if you think they're 'talking' they are, as you know if they're communicating with you or just burping

Hope all else are well...still enjoying the sunshine here. Went in a friends hot tub the other day...seriously wondering why we're leaving now!

Hi everyone sorry Im not on here much nowadays as always so busy and mumsnet was becoming a little too addictive! Hope youre all ok and getting some sleep.

Ive skimmed the thread a bit as theres always loads of new messages which feed my addiction but just to say a few things...

red cant believe how quickly this time has gone to you moving back. I bet you are having mixed emotions but ultimately its something to look forward to . I read of your dt becoming a little unsettled at night. Im not sure how old they are but my dt2 was a bit obnoxious (can they be obnoxious at this age?) for a few nights recently. Happy to play in bloody bouncer till 10pm the other night but crying every time he went in cot. We put it down to teething but we dont really know thank god hes settling again with virtually no adjustment from us just decided he was going to settle again ha ha.....

dream do not feel bad for not giving the reflux meds I ran out a few times and wasnt too bothered as thought gaviscon was crap but oh was I wrong! Just got a couple of emergency scripts and enjoyed the ensuing peace. No harm done! My dts are due to come off gaviscon soon. They are slowly starting to be weaned but tbh with you and beyou I dont think weaning has made any difference to the reflux (sorry) they were improving whilst being on milk alone anyway iykwim.

How is lemelle things settling down for you too?

Waving at ceevee claire bb3 nee peeling! et al.

God Im so bloody tired. Made a resolution to go out every day and after some weeks of it am feeling quite worn out but hell at least weve had 'fresh air' as my nan would say.

Afternoon.
mines I know what you mean about addictive! I spent ages on here lurking but somehow never have time to post, I dread to think how much time MN eats in my week - but to be fair most of it is spent squinting at my phone holding a feeding baby in the dark.

dream did you look into stronger reflux meds or are you happy with the Gaviscon? Ours were hard-core refluxers at birth, and son for weeks after, and went onto Domperidone and Ranitidine ealry. Dd has been off them for months, and I'm just starting to think about tapering down DS's now. If anything she's pukier than him, but I don't think it's reflux now.

Poor dd is in a right mess - snotty, wheezy, whilst Ds also has a hacking cough and both their sleep patterns are all OVER the shop - yesterday DS slept so late int he morning he went through the entire day with only a 10 minute nap. Fortunately he was in nursery for a few hours in the morning or I'd have been on my knees. They are both being little monkeys about food too - apparently they take spoons and purees (well, Ellas) quite happily at nursery, but completely refused for me yesterday. I ended up spreading mushed up beef onto crackers and bread for them to nibble - kind of like baby canapes!!

I think if I'm honest with myself there is not enough proper babbling in this house at the moment, so thank you for your replies there. I'm going to spend all day Friday and weekend with them both and really focus on what they can/can't do and put the phone with MN away, bad bad mother! and see if we have a problem. I just have to try and remember that I thought they would NEVER get finger food, being at least 2.5 months behind everyone else,and now they can't stop trying to pick food up. So I guess I have to think about them being at least 2.5 months behind on communication too, seeing as they were 2.5 months early ignores son standing up in cot holding onto bars.

Blimey, that was an epic. Hope all's well with you ladies. red, sorry to be dim, where are you and where are you going?!

dream it sounds as if the 6 months weaning advice has about as much grounding as the "don't eat peanuts in pregnancy" advice! First time I was pregnant they said don't, then they said it's OK, then they said maybe avoid them if you've got allergies yourself... difference is, what do I care about eating peanuts myself? But I would really like to start weaning the girls... or, say that, I'd like to be at the stage where they're ready to wean... up in their high chairs with neck control and a decent appetite! That's the main thing actually, the appetite - they still eat like sparrows despite everything we can think of to make them eat more and I'm worried that if I introduce the old baby porridge they'll take two spoonfuls and that'll do them the whole day!

I had a bit of a day off today... OH is off for a couple of days and said to me to go into town and spend some Gap vouchers I've had since before I was pregnant. Really weird being up in London - I ran into one of my colleagues on the train and it felt really really weird to be on my commuter train chatting to her! To her I suppose it's as weird - last time she saw me was 4 months ago and I was enormously pregnant, then I'm sitting on the train on me own...

mines, ta for the reflux info but it's gone away! We are so lucky. I was doing the thing keeping the wee one upright after feeds for 20 mins and then I got lazy and it was 10 mins and then 5 and then "you sit there on the boopy cushion for a second while mummy goes to the loo" and I realised that she actually didn't have a problem any more. So now I'm trying to taper down the gripe water in the feed so's she doesn't notice. We're down to 3mls at the moment, I don't want to stop it suddenly in case she notices and turns the nose up!

Yes my DS is a talker not a walker, but I fear (actually, love) that my twins are most definitely heading the other way! Jacob has been trying to sit up in his bouncy chair (as in more upright than the seat is) for a week or so now, and today I sat him on the sofa and he just stayed there til I moved him, which was prob about 5 mins! There is no WAY DS would've been able to do that! (As i mentioned he didn't sit up til 8 months, and even then he needed cushions for a while) I've not tried toby sitting up but he's been doing 90 degree turns on the playmat for a while... all good fun!

dreaming I wanted to do the EAT study this time round but apparently do it with twins... I can kinda see why not, but still a bit odd really; i would find that more interesting, not less...

twelve, we get various babble sounds, sort of like urh, ehh, ey, oooh, that sort of thing. And a fair bit of giggling these days which makes it all so worthwhile! Dreaming's dd speaking 'later' is prob due to being so able at other ways of communicating (and for some reason I thought she was 3, dreaming, hence being surprised she didn't talk! Not sure where I got that idea from... )

minesapint you made me laugh typing my nickname as lemelle (implying the pronunciation being lem - elle), coz it reminded me of endless discussions on how to pronounce it. It stems from a character name I had in an online rpg and everyone always pronounced it in odd ways - it's the same as emily but with an L, but no-one could ever get their head around it for some reason... anyway, yes, do see my previous post but things are ok thanks, we had a bit of a hiatus a few days ago when Jacob was doing his best to pretend he was poorly - crying, unsettled etc for the whole night until DH had the brainwave of giving him calpol about 4:30am and I had the brainwave of putting him in a bouncy chair. Cue bliss until about 8am! He's not quite been the same since with regards to sleeping/eating until last night when all was normal again, but in himself he's been so chirpy and smiley that he's obviously fine! But yes we seem quite good now in that they both went through til 4:30am (from 11pm feed) although when I say both, I obviously mean Jacob was forced with two episodes of dummy popping and co-sleeping!

Oh and I forgot, some good news from us...

Firstly DH is now working more day hours and has lost an evening shift. Hurrah! Still 3 nights a week but hey, it's a start.

Secondly we MAY have finally sold our house which will mean the much-needed move to a bigger house - basically as you will all appreciate, we need the bedroom space... our current house, while very lucky to have it in the first place, is just too small - technically 3 bed, but the floor area of the entire upstairs is only just bigger than my old bedroom was, so... yeah. Will be very glad if we can finally move!!

Just wanted to share this for anyone who is struggling... It's cute and might make you smile and I am so sleepy I am almost desensitised to it it makes me sad but there we go...

Hi all
Haven't been on for a while - we have been back from Devon since Sunday but my mother's help was on holiday this week so I have been alone for 5 days whilst also trying to do all the holiday laundry/unpackiing which I hate doing! And DH has been out 3 nights and worked late on the other two. Needless to say the DTs have not had many baths this week....

But anyway it was a lovely holiday. Its nice to spend time as a family, although DH commented that he needed another holiday afterwards! Despite the rain we went to the beach, had a picnic, went cycling (with the DTs in a double trailer), went to the zoo, and even ate out at a posh bistro where the DTs had their first taste of lobster, turbot and treacle tart (true baby led weaning hey!). They also settled really well in a strange house, and slept until 8am most days so I was very well rested (sorry)

Lots of milestones this week too - DTD rolled properly for the first time and now is like an exocet missile travelling across the room! They both sit up finally and DTS can now stand for several minutes if I lean him against the sofa. dTD said mama and DTS said dada - I am sure having both parents around for a week really helped! (they're 8 months btw) . So whoever asked about babbling - well DTD was always more vocal and has babbled since about 3 months, with consenent sounds. dTS only had vowel sounds until about 2 weeks ago.

Dream hope the hand foot and mouth has cleared up, its been going round our playgroup too as has chickenpox so might well get it soon here too.

Hope everyone else is well and getting some better sleep

Hello all,

I'm sorry for disapearing on you all, just now skimmed through the last page of posts. I'll have a proper read this evening if the girls decide to settle down easily. I can honestly say that I've had the worst month of my life so far. Jeesh.
I'll have a bit of a moan on here now, sorry.

Right, the last thing I posted was about the wasp attack thingy, I thought that was not a very good day. The next day, my DH ( not one to be upsatged by a couple of stings) decided to go surfing and break his neck. Literally. He's going to be ok, but they had to do a 7 hour surgery and it'll take 3 months before he can lift anything heavier than 5 pounds. So, no family here (some lovely friends though) and I'm now at home with 2 7 month old babies and a 2.7 month old toddler, and a DH who is recovering and cannot do much anything at all really. On top of all of this, we had to go to the ER twice more for DS (gash in his head and scissors in the eye), once for DH ( fever week after surgery, turned out to be a UTI) and once for me ( delayed alergic reaction to wasp stings.)
I now almost don't dare to say that the worst is over, because before you know it there's another ER visit...

On the plus side, DT2 has her helmet and is adjusting fine, DT1 is crawling and the rest of us is alive. Pff

Sorry for the moan, sometimes I need to vent. I'll get au courant with all of your posts later, I promise :)

Oh where that is dreadful, I hope he recovers quickly.
Where are you based? Is there any help you can get from homestart or similar? If you're anywhere near SW London I'll come and help you!

Hey Where, I'm so so sorry. What a crap time of it you've had. And blimey, looking after all that lot must be making your head spin. I think you need to lock DH and DS in a padded room so they stop injuring themselves for a start! Glad to hear your mates are pulling through for you, I totally get what it's like being so far away from home/help. What a bugger.

ceeveebee - what a lot of stuff your twins have been up to. Really great you feel like you had a holiday, but I know what you mean about washing. We're going to be living out of suitcases as of two weeks time once all our stuff gets packed up for shipping. I can't remember who asked but we're moving from Canada back to the UK. Thankfully after the Olympics so hopefully things will be a bit calmer at Heathrow!

DTs are both being a bit annoying with settling at the mo. We seem to alternate between having a rbilliant night and then a total crap one. And even on the brilliant ones, DD normally chooses that night to want water/pee pee/cuddles/her blankie at hourly intervals throughout the night. Damn her not being in her cot anymore. The doc has given me an extrememly complicated stool collection kit so I can see if there's anything up with DT2, but god knows how I'm going to collect his poo. For a start it just absorbs straight into his nappy and secondly I, apparently, have to attach this kind of bag over his willy to stop the pee ruining the sample. Blimey. I reckon once I'll have worked out how to do it he'll be better.

Right, got to go wake up DD and DH (this never happens) as DD is off to see Elmo on the Sesame Street roadshow. I'm pretty sure her head will explode from excitement.

Oh wheres what a terrible string of events. Thank goodness your dh is going to be ok even though he'll be useless for ages . That must have been terrifying for you all. And all the rest too . Not surprised you needed a vent and I hope your family's luck changes now.

ceevee your two sound adorable. We've never rarely managed such a successful holiday as you've described with one child, usually illness, terrible nights and/or terrible weather!! So glad it worked out. Yay for rolling and sitting! Hopefully they'll be that much happier by themselves for a bit longer once they can get to toys plug sockets, dvd players, cupboards and stuff.

Good luck with the poo collection red . Does he ever go in a 'usual' time period? For willy bag on and lying on changing mat?! No good if he'd be there for hours though... Living out of a suitcase with three small children . Eye on the prize though, mother babysitting services to be over used as much as possible!!!

I have to say the same thing to myself to cope with the nights, and the days are so much harder after a crap night... Eye on the prize for all 3 playing together in a year (or whenever)!!

Hello! Anyone in?

I'm a bit blah today. DT2 is being a total pain in the arse having a hard time. And I've got too tired to work out what's best to do. Agh, why did I have such good sleeping boys until 3 months and then they decided to be stupid.

Basically, still ebf, DT1 and 2 settle ok, but then DT2 wakes every 2/3 hours and it sounds like he's in pain - arched back, gritted teeth type thing. We're having his stools tested, but there's nothing visibly wrong with him. No puking, no blood in stools etc etc etc. But he wakes up every bleeding 2 hours!!!!

I've tossed and turned with what to do - I've had my Mum offering the usual 'try some water' or only feed him for 20 mins advice! - I'm just not sure anymore. He can't be that hungry cna he? CAN HE???!?!?!?

Right, how's everyone else? Lemele, how you getting on with a bit more evening help? 3.5 weeks till we're on a plane to Blighty...can not wait.

Hi, I am!

Blah too, but mine is dt1... up every sodding 2 hours too. He seems fine though. DT2 is still 'colicky' but now I'm wondering if it can be some kind of intolerance?? lactose? dairy? He is unsettled and cries after most feeds, seems in pain, arches back, real tears, very upset. EBF too, they both still are. He has gaviscon at night, and sometimes it helps, maybe, and sometimes it doesn't. I still can't get either to bed. I've had to pretty much abandon tandem feeding as dt2 is too difficult to feed tandem. I do both together after the bath as both cry, and it is the most stressful part of my day, I have to try and keep hysteria to a minimum til dh can get DD into her cot. Urgh. And what, and how, can I get dt1 to sleep for longer?!?!?! My littler-by-miles, a good pound and a half, dt2 is waking twice a night. Not blooming dt1...

Glad you're back in a few weeks rednellie, respite is in sight! I hope your dt2 improves, but I have no advice, unless I manage to get talking to a paediatric dietician or someone who knows something about that. Or maybe I'll try dt2 with solids in case his pain is all reflux- my friend has had some not-confirmed provisional evidence from the EAT study that it looks like early weaning helps decrease anaemia through iron deficiency in breast milk fir the early weaned group. She's not heard anything yet on the allergies side, but nothing negative from the early weaners to date (though of course the study isn't finished yet).

yes, fantastic having more evening help lemele, always a hard time of day when you're tired anyway.

Speaking of which, I'm so shattered, I'm off to bed, quick, before the first of the night wakings. DT1 has started his first being at around 11:30pm. Thanks...