Under 1s twin post-natal group? Should we have one? Who's in?!

[PeelingmyselfofftheCeiling]

The antenatal group is nearly full, any graduates fancy joining forces to compare

Peeling, that thread was a disaster waiting to happen. Some of the things people said on both sides were just terrible particularly on a parenting website. So totally understand you want to take a break but don't be away too long. I think I am going to hide the whole AIBU topic from now on x

Oh peeling please don't go for too long. That thread was total arse. I said to DH I started feeling really depressed about being a parent of 3 small children as people make such awful assumptions plus the fact that i'm going to have to walk everywhere once we're back in London. That's the one thing that's really different here - people actually seem to like children and value the people who look after them. And the buses are great. But seriously, come back soon.

dream happy birthday you youngster! I suddenly feel less sorry for you and all the wakeful nights . Hope things keep on getting better. Small steps and all.

Lemele - hello! Nice to hear from you, sorry your nights are still a struggle. Ugh, much as I have previously moaned about DH (which I really shouldn't as he's amazing) I would find it very hard to do nights without him. And yey for the improvement in tandem feeding.

I'm finding at the mo, my main issue is being 'touched out'. As in, there only seem to be about 2 hrs in the day where someone isn't wanting to cling/hug/touch me. Poor DH, doesn't leave much room for intimacy. Having said that I did manage to persuade myself I was pregnant again and both of us came out in cold sweats (I'm not, thank god!).

And mine, I don't think its unusual at all to have, at best ambivalent and at worst fairly traumatic memories of birth. It can often be a very difficult experience. It can also be amazing, rewarding and empowering...depends on the birth and how it's dealt with after. This is why I'm vaguely toying with the idea of becoming a doula once everything settles down - birth stays wiht you all your life, my Mum can still describe all of our births practically minute by minute and that was centuries ago... And there's been a lot of studies into the positive benefits of having a constant birth companion - i.e. doula - on decreasing rates of c-sections/interventions etc. Also, if any of that happens then having someone there who can help understand it all has got to help, hasn't it?

Sorry, waffling. Meanwhile, DD is in the garden 'weeding' and 'cooking'. I wonder if a) I'll have any plants left and b) how much earth she'll have eaten....

Oh blimey, I'd read the thread last night my time and I've only just looked at it again. Seriously, when people start saying stuff like that then you need to walk away. Hope you manage to get some space peeling, I'd have taken all those comments really badly (which is probably why I lurk on AIBU rather than post...effing nitwits), I thought you handled it remarkably well, you too ceeveebee, moral highground maintained.

Ive just scanned it, and I dont blame you for being upset. I've never (and will never) post on aibu even though I've desperately wanted to because there are too mny idiots on this sight who want to create arguments and be down-right offensive.

Peeling, don't go, name change and stay with us!

I've only taken the girls on buses in Edinburgh and park and ride buses as havent braved London with them yet and have to say I'm likely to pay congestion charges and park centrally and walk round with them to avoid the tube or bus. I've seen a small child of 3 or 4 physically shunted out the way by a grown man during rush hour on the tube (although thankfully everyone's outrage at said man did reinstate my faith in people. But I'd still avoid going anywhere near it in London

Ds has been diagnosed with hearing loss (he's 3 and developed the problem about 18 months ago) but we only managed to get things moving about 6 months ago, so the surgery is to take his adenoids out, put grommets in and have a general poke around to see if there is any deeper more permanent problems. Fingers crossed it works, I desperately want to hear his voice .

Site not sight and there's too many spelling mistakes in that post to correct!!

Peeling don't go! Name change if you want to but don't go..... forget that AIBU (or whatever it is) thread - they are a bunch of losers!!! (not you Ceeveebee of course :))

oh and it seems you are near me... :)

peeling I so shouldn't have looked at that AIBU thread... but those people are being really awful! Don't let them bother you, a few months ago I posted a really mild whinge in the pregnancy thread about the fact that my antenatal clinic midwife failed to spot a symptom of anaemia that I had and all these people came on to flame me for not going to my GP and even to tell me that I didn't even have the right symptoms for anaemia and all this crap. I went off of mumsnet for a while after that and changed names but at least here on the twins board people are nice...

I do wonder in that AIBU thread though. "Get someone else to hold your twins while you fold up the buggy." Well, I have 8-weekers, and I wouldn't give them up to some random stranger to hold, and my buggy is a pram, and doesn't really fold, so I'd have had to get off the bus. I think people with singletons don't really get it - it's not the same as having a newborn and a 2 year-old, the only way to have baby twins out is in a pram or a fully reclined buggy, and you can't hold them both at the one time! (We have a Weego twin carrier so actually I can, but it takes an age to strap them into it - not a manouvre you could do on the bus). We have all sorts of problems when I need to take them to the GP - the surgery is upstairs and they don't have a lift so I need to take the Weego each time and strap them both in, and then how are you supposed to have a physical checkup with 2 babies strapped to your front? Or else I can put both of them in one carricot and take it up with me, but they're getting too big for that. It's not a disability, but there are physical limits on what you can do with small twin babies and I think most people overlook that unless they have to do it themselves. I think that's the essence of what makes twins more challenging - it's hard to have them both in your arms at the same time so you can't always cuddle one who's crying.

Bah. Silly people.

When I was pregnant this time round my Mum sent me a very funny postcard from the Imperial War Museum of an old war era poster. It said something along the lines of 'HOUSEWIVES! Please make sure you are home by 4pm to leave transport free for WORKERS.'

Oh how I laughed.

After reading that thread I just came away thinking, well there are nice people and damn right rude ones, whether able bodied or not. Anyway, moving on.

BB3 - you almost made me cry with your post. You're such a lovely Mum, I really hope they sort it all out. xxxx

red youre so right I always say it you can be nice or nasty regardless of race, colour, ability, schooling, background, how many dcs you have etc etc. Its a bit of a bugbear of mine. Certain situations dont give anyone the 'right' to dismiss the situation of others (or be rude to them) as who knows the background of those people iykwim?

Thanks red!

We know he has some hearing as he responds instantly to music and my voice and certain words (but not others) we just don't know how much he can hear and what type of noise it is - fingers crossed they find the problem and it makes a difference. He'll need support for a while regardless of what they find but keep everything crossed! I'm just hoping I don't fall apart when they put him to sleep!

Dream how was your first full day as a 29 year old (welcome to my age!)

Happy belated birthday *dream! Hope you got some sleep as birthday present!

You lot make me feel rather ancient..

bb3 it must be so hard having your child going through surgery! The day itself will be hard for you, but hopefully the first step to his hearing improving.

Don't go peeling stay with us, we're a nice bunch!

Those threads always end up badly, I guess some people have a lot of built up anger for the way they get treated routinely and they take it out on the first available target. I kind of see where they're coming from (see lady who had to wait 12 buses before being able to get on), but it doesn't make it right!
The suggestions of handing out babies or having both on a sling were totally ridiculous! Oh and the lady suggesting a buggy with car seats, she obviously has no idea that with twins they tend to be huge contraptions with adaptors too, that you need to take off..

You and ceeveebee were very brave, I had to sit on my hands to avoid posting, but I knew I'd get a bashing so I avoided it as These things really upset me. (I cannot do confrontations to save my life me)

Hugs

Thanks lemele, I'm so touched by your offer and thank you so much. My dad is paying for the nanny/mothers help lady twice a week and depending what it costs (I dread to think!) we might be able to get some night help a couple of nights a week. I keep hanging on thinking improvements are just around the corner. Seems not yet... I also have the horrible feeling of being inept with them as everyone else seems to have some sort of routine/pattern, be it parent instigated or baby led yet I can't manage it.... Admittedly I only do a 'routine' at bedtime but its the same every night and not working, but even naps- I normally go out in the morning with DD so they get a nap that way but lashing rain yesterday and we stayed in and could not get those babies to sleep... Come 2pm it was full wet weather gear and out in the rain with the buggy by my dad wife- lifesaver... And you, red and Claire have all managed fine, ebf too. (I know you give a small amount of formula Claire)

peeling do I dare look at this thread?! But i second everyone else. Some people can be so vitriolic on here, name change if you need to and stay! (But I love your name, what a shame!)

Lol BB3, it was a washout really after a terrible night. DD up 3:30 & 5 to join in... And for those of you from the ante natal thread, I was back to my usual position on the landing- but worse, I was so tired last night trying to escape her room doing gradual retreat (she wouldn't stop screaming like a banshee) that I was lying on the floor, half in half out of her room feeding DT1 in a draught (& he's got a really bad cough and cold)
She was up at 5 too again though we did get her back to bed.

I hope the surgery goes well BB3, it must be so hard as a parent even though you're making the right choice for your child. I will cross everything for K.

Just remembered its fathers day. Good job DD and i made a card at playgroup!! Is anyone else doing something nice?

dream you are NOT inept as a mother!! I understand how you ferl ad I felt the same with dd1, she would not settle at all especially with me and thatmade me feel completely useless, I think I had PND too, but never went to drs so not diagnosed. BUT I think it's just the way some babies are (unfortunately), I am convinced that these babies just find the transition to life outside theomb much harder than others and it takes thdm longer to get used to it.

The downside is that there is no easy solution, but it is not your fault, you are foing brilliantly I think I would be a screaming mess in your place!

Hugs

Ps I am also convinced that the fact that they sleep so well is down to pure luck and nothing I have done

dream I've got 8 weekers here and no routine at all. Feed on demand (still every 3 hours or more like 2.5) and we feed them to sleep at the late evening feed which can be anywhere between 9 and 11! Our ones sleep at night mostly, nothing we did, just lucky. I've read that babies just have a crying peak at about 6 or 8 weeks which they grow out of... like you I pound the streets with the buggy, that or our Weego carrier usually do the trick eventually. With the buggy I feel like, at least if they're still pissed off, at least I'm doing something, and that something is a lot easier than sitting in the house listening to them yell. You should see my suntan. I'm a wreck but look as though I've just come back from holidays!

I'm the same at Beyoglu - no real routine and definitely no where near 'sleeping through'!! just put the boys to bed when I go to bed, and then three hours between feeds if I am lucky. Don't beat yourself up thinking everyone else has got it sussed as it were - definitely not the case! It is not something you have or have not done. you have got it bloody hard but you are coping and dealing with it - it is so hard when you are so tired but you are doing what you need to do to get through these difficult first few months. I hear you re DD sleep reverting back to 'not great' to say the least! Up every night several times again - the difference is now that DH has to deal with it as I am in with the babes - and he just gets in to bed with her or puts her in our bed...... not sure how that will work out for habits in the future but I am past caring and just jeaolous of the lovely snuggle time he gets with DD.

Fathers Day - DH got 2 hours to potter in the garage as requested! He is now out with DD and the boys are asleep so I am the one getting time to myself!

You lot are making me feel old - 29 and 30.... that was a few years ago for me

on a completely differnt subject, just thinking about starting potty training with DD..... crazy or what?! Just posted in potty trainig thread in the hope of some useful advice as I am clueless.

BB3, sounds positive that surgery is due to take place to improve things / help DS. Have you got a date for surgery? (sorry if you have already said you have). It will be really hard for you I know but a step on the road to resolving DS's hearing.

dream - I'm just lucky. I know that really doesn't help. DD was a total right royal pain in the arse when she was a baby, these guys not so much. But that's just the hand you get dealt sometimes. I'm managing ok, but I don't have two babies with colic or reflux. You are doing brilliantly, it would probably be a good idea to get some night relief so at least you can feed them then hand them over and get some sleep. I was also also wondering if your daytime nanny could take the boys off you rather than DD? Then you could at least have some lovely one on one time with DD (I often find this refreshing after multiple bf and nappy changes) And it wont last. (and if you are feeling desperate or anything like that, get some help, get some fresh air (alone) and don't suffer in silence).

If it makes you feel any better, I'm sure I'll have absolutely horrible teenagers . If Dh is anything to go by, I've got my work cut out for me.

bigboobs, am just off out shopping - we just potty trained DD and I'll write my tips once I get a minute.

Right, survived shop with entire family. Phew.

So bigboobs, my DD decided just as the babies were born that she was ready to potty train. And obviously everyone tells you not too when they're going through such a big change anyway, but what do you say to a little girl who is asking to take their nappy off so they can wee?

I don't know about you, but DD had been able to use a potty at home if she wasn't wearing any pants for at least a month or so (over Christmas, I was too lazy to take it further being 8 months prego). So when we decided to do it properly we basically just said good bye to nappies in the day completely, cold turkey. These were some things that helped:

• taking DD to the toilet preemptively when out. And often the novelty of toilets outside the house would encourage her to go. Ditto, everytime I change the boys nappies I ask her if she needs to go too.
• we put a blanket in her car seat and pushchair that would absorb any accidents and then just washed it if there were.
• we never made a hoo ha about any accidents, just 'oh no, never mind next time you can go on the potty'
• we encouraged her to get good at taking her own clothes off, putting her toilet seat on the big loo and moving a stool into place so she felt a real sense of achievement and wanted to go to the loo to show off (many a guest to our house has to go and watch DD wee )

We never used incentives, apart from getting to wear big girl pants like mummy. The first week she was naked from the waist down at home, then I'd just put her in leggings when out (no knickers). Once we'd all got the hang of it, I started using knickers (I bought a size or two too big as that made it easier for DD to pull them down herself and she seemed to get a lot of wedgies with the smaller sizes which bothered her a lot). She went through a phase of deliberately peeing on the floor after she'd got the hang of it, but that seems to have passed and we haven't had an accident for about 3 weeks.

That's all I can think of for now. The most important thing is though was that she was ready, she was telling us she wanted to go and she was able to use a potty. It's been brilliant and I am revelling in not having to cart around a massive bag for her anymore. Makes life a lot easier.

dream, I had another thought - we've just got DD a clock which you can program and it has a picture of a sun and a moon on it. So the moon comes out at night time and then the sun wakes up when you program it to. It means DD knows she has to stay in bed until then. It works most of the time, I do find having an inanimate object dictating to her rather than me works a lot more effectively...might be worth a go?

Thanks Red, thats really helpful. Having looked at the information you have given me and looking at some other threads I don't think DD is quite there yet - but I dont think she is too far off so I feel a little more prepared now! Thanks again taking the time - I know time is precious!

All very quiet on here - everyone ok?

Lovely weather at last so had a good day yesterday and so far so good today! Still no smiles but I am not stressing about it. Heart murmur confirmed as nothing to be concerned about for now - back again in a months time to see if it is still there. DT1's has apparently already gone.

Quick poll - at what age did your DTs stop sleeping in the same cot/bed/mosses basket etc? Mine have been in their own cots for a few weeks now as they kept disturbing each other (not the cries, but the arms and legs and nose sucking). Their cots are right next to each other. But I am now thinking I am being a bit mean seperating them already?? What are your experiences?

Hi all, hope you all had a great father's day weekend. I bought DH a new wallet and put a photo of the DTs inside, he loved it!

bigboobs I can't exactly remember when I split mine up, its all a blur! I think it was about 6 weeks. We have two really small cots, more like cribs, so they quite quickly got too big to share. They shared the downstairs travelcot for daytime naps until about 3 weeks ago (so 6 months old) as its much bigger so could seperate them until DTS started rolling and I found him on top of DTD one day!

Uurgh did someone mention potty training, I know its a long way off but that's going to be a nightmare with two isn't it? Aaarggh!

Dream I hope the sleep is improving or that you've managed to get some night help

I have a vague plan to take the DTs to the pub in their pram tonight to watch the England game, have never taken them out at night after 7pm but think its worth trying it before our holidays in a couple of weeks otherwise we'll just be staying in every night.

Enjoy the rest of the day all!

Apparently potty training twins is easier as there's the competitive/copying element. But boys tend to be slower than girls so it all depends and a lot of it is to do with language too so...lots of factors. I've actually found it completely unstressful mainly because we didn't really try, just had DD naked a lot, had the potty around for ages before, always let her watch us go so she got curious etc etc. And then when we actually ditched the nappies it was easy as we'd done all this for about 6 months before. You deal with a lot of puddles of piss, but tbh, the less fuss you make about it the better.

My two are still in a cot together. I find they sleep well with some body heat next to them and I'd rather it was their brothers than mine, iyswim.

Hope everyone's well, I've had evil nights followed by brilliant nights here so am feeling alternately ecstatic and very very low and tired! But, I did go to baby yoga yesterday which was wonderful as I'd gone to the antenatal classes and it was lovely to catch up with some other mums and to really concentrate on just the boys without DD there. They loved it! Lots of smiles and the teacher took DT1 for a bit which he very much enjoyed. Was really nice.

Hi everyone... I'm in for a brag that will be very short lived. Last night there was a continuous 4 and a half hour period where both of mine were asleep! DT2 fed at 10pm, then DT1 at 10.10, and then DT2 slept till 2.40 and DT1 to 2.55. And I'm not sure if DT1 would've woken for that feed - I dream fed her hoping she'd stay coordinated with her sister. This is alongside generally both of them upping their feed volumes - both of them have taken a full 150ml at times in the last couple of days.

Of course I'm full of excitement about how I can get them timed to sleep through the night/go every 4 hours instead of every 3 and I bet they'll cluster feed all night now :-) But if they did it once they'll do it again. And it just goes to show that even if you are like me - crap at routines, crap at tandem feeding - the wee people sort themselves out anyway!

Oh and I've just started swaddling, and that's going well... we missed the boat on swaddling when they were born because of them needing antibiotics = cannula = massive splint on one arm. But I was reading one of Harvey Karp's books and I thought OK, give it a try. DT1, who has a bit of a dodgy tummy, slept so soundly I had to keep checking she was still breathing. Why didn't I just sleep goddamn it??

Ho hum, nighttime feeds last night: 10pm, 2am, 4am, 7am. Tried DT2 with swaddling and she woke at 7 in a bad mood with the sheet wrapped around her neck, christ, there's your basic SIDS nightmare right there. I'll try with her tonight but otherwise might be back to the old sleeping bag. DT1 slept happily most of the night but started grizzling after the 4am feed and kept going. Eh well, it's still an improvement.

Hey, does anyone have advice for dealing with the guys after immunisations? Do they get feverish and pissed off? Mine are going for theirs on Friday.