Under 1s twin post-natal group? Should we have one? Who's in?!

[PeelingmyselfofftheCeiling]

The antenatal group is nearly full, any graduates fancy joining forces to compare

dream, I feel for you, I really do. It will get better, it will. Before you know it the first months have gone and are now a bit of a haze and you can sleep. Is there anybody (DM, DF, DMIL/PIL) who can help out? Even if it's just taking them all out for a walk so you can sleep.
As for having a nice cry every now and then: I cry all the time now. I blame the hormones. And the lack of sleep.
More handholding from me!

I love our frv red - i'm a nightmare with big cars as I have rubbish spacial awareness but it's no bigger than a regular 5seater but has more space. We can get the double bugaboo and a single stroller in the boot too! I also love my parents s-max. I love chiswick - if I was to live in London again I'd definitely live Richmond/chiswick way x apparently I love a lot of things this morning!

Bigboobs I'm half an hour away from Southampton .

Dream - huge hugs. Please don't take this the wrong way but I'm genuinely really worried about you. I have no idea how you are coping on so little sleep, I would be a heap on the floor (weeping uncontrollably!). Don't get me wrong, you're doing amazingly coping with the kids but with two colic-struggling babies, and a dh with a full time and demanding job, something is going to give and I'm worried that you are going to damage your health doing all this alone. Can you speak to your hv and see if it's possible to get some extra help some days or nights, there must be something they can do to help. Or as a last resort would you consider going to a mw unit so you can get some help in the night times? A lady on my an thread went in for a week and it's made the world of difference to her. We have a brilliant one in the new forest that provide restbite for new mums free of charge and my friends with singletons have stayed there post birth also. I debated for ages about posting this as I really don't mean it in a negative way, but I do worry about you. You are completely selfless and are breaking your back to be a brilliant mother to your babies which is an amazing thing to do but please don't risk your health, those gorgeous boys and little Isla need their mummy x I hope that didn't come across badly and I'm very glad the boys are making small improvements, your post about 20 minutes being happy was just lovely.

The girls are doing really well. Loving food (too much sometimes!) and progressing well. Ayse-Rose now zooms round the room crawling and pulls herself up to walk along sofas etc. Edie is getting really frustrated that she can't do the same and that, with her top teeth breaking, has made her really very grumpy and tough these past few days - she finally settled at 3am last night and I'm like the walking dead today! Ds walked at 9 months and I'm very pleased the girls are doing things more slowly (although I think Ayse will be walking in a month or two is she can work out her balance when standing!). I've been feeling really rough this last week. I'm sure it's a bug but seem to have gone off random foods (like nuts and potatoes!).

Right better get my bum in gear an take the girls for a walk x

Hi all. Dream, you are doing BRILLIANTLY and being an amazing Mum to all three DCs. BUT you have got to look after yourself as well, for everyones sake. Can you call in some reinforcements at least during the day - I know it is not always easy to fall asleep in the day and sometimes you feel worse after a day time snooze as you feel all dopey and even more tired - but it does help in the long run. How are you feeling this morning? Have you got family coming today or tomorrow who can take all 2 Dcs for a nice long walk to give you a couple of hours? I have no advice on how to get babies to sleep - if only I knew!!

Can I please ask for some advice? Me and the boys had our 6 week checks this morning - we were in with the GP for TWO HOURS!!!! A few things of concern. With me, they think I have an infection in my womb or a peice of placenta still inside - so on two lots of anti-biotics and had some swabs taken - if not all cleared up by next week then I have got o go and have an ultra sound to see whats going on . Not too worried as now on meds and will be checked out soon if not all cleared up - and other than a horrible discharge (sorry ) I feel ok.

But the GP has got me all worried about the boys. She thinks she can hear a heart murmur with DT1 - I am surpisingly not too worried about this as the same was picked up with DT2 when he was in hospital, and after a heart scan they ruled out any ptoblems and said the murmur was just the usual slushing of a tiny babies heart. Soooo, I am presuming it will be the same for DT1 - blimmin' hope it is and nothing serious. What has got me most worried though was the GPs concern that neither baby is smiling yet and neither follow me with their eyes when I walk across the room etc. I have got to take them back in 2 weeks time to see if the smiles and eye following has started. They are only 6 weeks - I though smiles came any time FROM 6 weeks, not BY 6 weeks???

What have been your experineces of smiles and eye following? Should I be worried?

Going to spend as much times as I can smiling at them and making stupid noises as I walk across the room.....

BB3 - I think I have said before where I live and we figured we are not too far from each other! I emailed the Southampton Twins Group yesterday to join with the plan of going to one of their get-togethers. Are you near enough to join the group???

Bigboobs, My DTS first smiled at 8 weeks and DTD at 9 weeks. I heard somewhere that twins tend to be about 4 weeks behind developmentally (maybe because they're usually at least 3 weeks early!). Can't remember the eyes thing but 6 weeks is very young! I hope the heart issue and the placenta turn out to be nothing.

Dream, lots of good suggestions here. If you can afford it, a couple of nights of a night nanny might be worth it. If you are bf and don't have time to express, they will bring baby to you, then they do all the changing, settling etc. I had one for 3 nights a week from 3 weeks to 12 weeks and would not have coped without it, and I don't have any other DC - seriously you are amazing!

Bigboobs, I can't remember when the girls first smiled but I don't think it was frequently at 6 weeks. A quick google says between 6-8 weeks for the first smile and regular smiles around 12 weeks (here.

My GP checked whether they could support their necks, (holding them by their arms to see if they had their neck up) and then their general obs, pulse etc. And I think they did a following my voice check. Ayse was diagnosed with a heart murmur at the 6 week check (she didn't have it at birth) and it was quite an obvious one so they were worried about the speed it had developed. However we just had GP checks after another 6 weeks, then 12 weeks and finally she was discharged after (I think) about 5 months of 6-weekly checks. I was told to monitor her for any colour changes etc. If the murmur had gotten worse at any of those stages or been there after the 5 months she would have had a scan at the hospital and further tests, but as it was, it cleared itself up - hope it's the same for you. Everyone told me most murmurs clear themselves up (although it's not that reassuring at the time).

bigboobs, what a shame about you having an infection, hope its sorted soon. Mine were definitely not smiling at all at their 6 week check, or tracking. GP not concerned. They are both smiling now, but not all the time or easily iykwim. They are 10 weeks. They will look at you and track you now, o can't remember when they started. Mine were 37+6 so I wasn't expecting smiles until 8 weeks- they lost those 2 weeks development in the womb. Weren't yours 36 weeks? I really, really wouldn't worry. Hope the heart murmur is nothing too.

I'm feeling tired and negative today as both boys have just cried and cried and cried. I have reinforcements every day, dh, my mum or dad or paid help 2 days a week, yet the days are still manic and babies so unsettled getting time to rest is very hard. When DD naps the boys have been taken out in the buggy by my dad, paid help lady etc but they can rarely keep them long as they are so unsettled quite often- or at least one or other is. Then i find I've lain awake for say 45 minutes and hear a crying baby or two return. Or even if they're good that I'm just lying awake. Even exhausted i find it near impossible to nap.

Going to think about your suggestions BB3, though I don't think the mw unit will be of use, its a 40 min motorway drive away, I don't know if they do post natal care and I'd have to be back for DD and dh leaves for work by 7:30am normally. Will discuss with hv maybe, and discuss finances and paying for some night help. If i could get some more sleep I'm sure I'd deal with the crying etc miles better.

Your girls sound lovely BB3, I hope Edie catches up soon so she's not so cross and those teeth stop bothering her.

Oh, nappy explosion, eeek!

bigboobs so sorry about infection and heart mumur news. Just to add my twopence worth, my boys didn't really smile until 8 weeks and then not very much, it's only the last week or so where they've been proper smiley and giggly. DH told me I was being an idiot for worrying about it so it's good to hear it's pretty common amongst twins. Maybe its also that you don't gurn inanely at them as much as you do with a singleton so they just take longer...weird thing to look for at 6 week check if you ask me.

dream . Crying sucks. Listening to crying when you're tired sucks even harder. I think your daytime helpers need to get better at helping. There is nothing stopping them from taking the twins out for two full hours if they've fed just before. Even if they are crying, surely they can suck it up for a couple of hours to give you a break. I mean, you don't get a break do you? And you have got to try and then sleep, but they need to get those boys out for 2 hours or you don't stand a chance (I'm equally rubbish at daytime naps!). Hoping you get some rest soon. xxx

Ha ha, yes I am close to Southampton. ALthough Dreaming had it right when she said she thought I lived on an island... Right, that's pretty much outed myself.

bigboobs so sorry to hear about your infection, sounds thoroughly unpleasant. I'm very surprised at your GP though. Granted mine were more than 6 weeks early, but I thought they were pretty relaxed about timescales on twins for developments, given they can easily be 3 or 4 weeks early then 6 weeks is quite a tight timeframe! Mine certainly didn't smile and follow for a good while, and I remember being really worried about it. Ds now has a cheeky grin and laughs like Sid James, but doesn't really watch stuff because he's far more interested in beating things up and trying to move really quickly! while Dd stares at everything intently, including herself in a mirror, which also makes her laugh hysterically. So no worries there! We had our 9 month check today and the HV was a bit funny about them not having a pincer grip, but I'm just trying to remember they're 7 months really, they'll get there, and when they do, I'll wish to go they'd never learnt to pick things up!

We have murmur/PDAs here (common with premmies). Harder not to worry about that but basically we had a cardiology appt then once you are 'in they system' it's easier to guage the seriousness, because if they don't want to see you very often they're not that worried!

Dreaming I'm worried for you still. I think I was lucky in that I could fall asleep standing up, so if someone did take the twins out and I lay down there is literally no way I could have NOT fallen asleep! Do you have a trigger/routine you can use to make yourself sleepy - relaxation techniques where you tense/release all the muscles from your toes to the top of your head don't take very long, you're lying down in the dark, and did work for me when I had exam stress I remember.

Dreaming: I agree with Rednellie and Peeling. And I think that if you do get some time by yourself, try not to stress too much about falling asleep. I always figured that even just laying down and trying to relax was better than nothing. You're doing really well, taking care of your colicky babies. And it will get better.

Trying to think of things that might help. I hope you don't mind that :)
Have you tried a sling or carrier for one of them? Maybe also for your helpers. I know every baby is different, but it might shut one of them up help reduce the crying. And sitting and bouncing while holding baby on one of those big excercise balls can help as well, a lot of babies love that.

bigboobs I'm sorry to hear about the infection and the murmur. My girls started smiling around 7 weeks (DT1) and 8 weeks (DT2). I thought that that was pretty early myself. I wouldn't worry about that. Do take care of yourself though!

Ok, back to work :)

(PS Thanks everyone for car suggestions. Apparently DH wants a Honda Odyssey...but I want a VW Transporter. But then I have a bit of a thing about vans. At my old job I drove a Mercedes Sprinter with a 10 foot trailer down some country lanes. Now that was living dangerously. )

Oh and peeling, have you tried a bit of blw with your two? I know that once I started introducing finger foods in with DD her pincer grip improved exponentially. I did a bit of mush and a bit of solid for her. Her favourite trick when she was a little un was to take a banana, planted it on the top of her head and then drag it down until it somehow got into her mouth. Oh the hilarity.

Hi Red, we drive a Vw transporter and I love it! We bought a bare van with sliding doors on both sides, and added insulation, rear windows and a 2/1 seat row by using one of the conversion companies. I can bump the buggy straight into the back without folding, and there is so much room for all their stuff (and our massive dog!).

Finger foods dont work for my two, they've realises spoon feeding is the fastest way to get the calories in I think . We'll persevere....

Fair enough. And you've just made me want the transporter even more. In fact I'd like two, one for day to day and another to kit out as a camper van...

Sorry, don't know what happened there.

Btw Peeling and ceeveebee I have no idea how you managed to stay so polite on that thread about a mum on a London bus and whether she should have got off for a wheelchair user. When someone cussed your stroller ceeveebee I personally wanted to whallop them. People really have no idea do they? The people suggesting that she hand the twin babies over to randoms on a bus, then fold her buggy....I mean beyond belief. Here in Vancouver we have incredibly civilised buses, all the front lot of seat fold up, I've been on one with 3 strollers and one wheelchair, amazing. And the bus drivers wait until you've put the breaks on. I will miss that, for sure.

Evening all,

So last night DT2 up (after 9:30 ish bedtime for all 3) 12, 2, 4 & 7. DT1 up 1:30, 4:30, 8. DD up 5:30, singing in her cot though I ignored her, was still busy with DT1. Err, seriously children?!

Still today is my birthday, last one before the big 3-0, and i have eaten my own weight in chocolate already :) . Took the children out to a butterfly house in a park near us which DD loved. The boys have wailed less than yesterday. I have unfortunately scratched and dented our car pretty badly against our new gates pulling onto the drive.... Eek. Still, dh can't be too cross because its my birthday, right?! I blame the tiredness &my crap spatial awareness

Your Transporter sounds wicked peeling. Would it be big enough for camping to sleep in etc too?

Ooh, x post rednellie, I would be enraged! Babies to randoms on a bus?! Wtf?! you only do that at playgroups, no?

Hi guys, sorry I've not been on here for a while. Sleep is improving but the hard physical slog of having the kids on my own for 4 nights a week is really starting to get to me. Add to that the fact that our pushchair is massive and won't fit into our hall, so whenever I want to go out (which is quite often, as a sleep-inducing technique) it's muscles to put it up and back and forth to put everything/everyone in. Then it's arm-achingly heavy to push up the slight incline into the town centre - because of DS1, not the twins, they're still pretty light! I'm starting to rope in a bit more help now that I've worked out where/when I really need it and therefore know what to ask for, so that's helped.

The twins are sleeping til 2:30am at the earliest now - hurray!! And sometimes go further (last night it was 3:45am for Jacob and Toby slept even longer) so in that respect things are finally looking up. They are often unsettled in the evening though and don't really settle down for the night until 10pm, which may or may not be why they can go through that long! Either way its not so bad because, hey, I'd prob still be awake at that point anyway...Also they are so utterly zonked by then that they usually go to sleep fairly easily! They still cluster feed later on in the night, though. Think it was about every half an hour once they'd woken up, last night! Taking it in turns, they were...

Ooh, I tried tandem feeding again today, and it didn't hurt OR feel weird, hooray :) so might have to get myself a nice cushion for that as I would like to do it at least some of the time.

Re twin mums, there's one who occasionally comes to toddler group but find it hard to talk to her for some reason. Only other one I've met, her twins have just started school and she seems a world away at the moment!

dreaming, nice that your twins are smiling, that must be rewarding. Mine are only just looking happy (not that they looked sad, just neutral) and kind of smile but don't really smile at me yet at all. Just like their big brother! Poor you re. the wacky state you're in, I think of you a lot. I second the others' concern too In fact (and I hope you don't mind this) if you needed any help with finances for night help, I for one would be more than willing to help out if I can. I bet others would too. You have it so tough; I find myself struggling and mine are so good really, so I can't imagine how tough you must be finding it! :( Reading 'multiple matters' about the triplet dad (whose wife died) got help from loads of readers has inspired me to say this

Oh and HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

beyoglu - yes we get the bad evenings, unsettled, crying, etc. But it's so much better when DH is around that I can't help thinking it's just because I'm constantly trying to put one down all the time. Our eve routine sounds rather like yours! We don't do baths either. They need spontaneous ones often enough due to massive poo explosions so I'm not increasing my workload unnecessarily!!

ceeveebee - glad your DTS is better, must have been scary...

rednellie - isn't it rather ridiculous the things people say?! As if you could do anything OTHER than look after your kids... I love the idea of leaving them on the porch, though....

BB3 - sounds like it's non-stop for you! Hope the op goes ok - what's it for? (Sorry if you've said previously)

bigboobs - it took me a minute to work out what a "sing of improvement" was, thought it was some new way of celebrating milestones... Hope all is ok re docs as well. None of my boys smiled properly for ages, and by 11 weeks DT2 is only just following me with his eyes. They still don't really smile at me either.

claire - congrats on the touran! we got ourselves a very shiney 2nd hand one just before our twins were born and i love it though even that feels small once the kids and the pushchair are loaded up

Don't suppose anyone's in Shropshire are they?

Probably won't have internet from tomorrow onwards (switching providers) so I will have to just pop on when I can!

Wow just seen the length of my post. That's what happens when you do it in bits over a 4-hour period! Haha!

Happy birthday dream!!!

Happy birthday to you dream .... hope you are able to have some relaxation this evening. sending you best wishes, sleep-vibes to all 3 dcs and even more chocolate x

red Im in south wales. my dts were born in prince charles hosp in merthyr on 2nd feb. Seems an age ago now but yesterday I was saying to my mum that even tho I didnt think I had a particularly traumatic birth havene been able to get over that and the first few months (rough) of colic and reflux. Things are so much better now but the memory of it depresses me iykwim. Is it normal to feel like that? Im happy otherwise if a bit emotional at the tv too sometimes.

drem* if your dts are 10 weeks then things will def improve soon Im sure of it colic gets better after 3 months usually youll be on here in just 2 weeks saying youve had a sleep!! Yay!! Countdown! (me and dh counted down to 12 weeks about that now but things were pretty shitty in this house too).

bigboobs only one of my dts were smiling by 6 weeks and now though they both smile and laugh hysterically only one has rolled over othe really doesnt care--. It proves that every baby (twin or not) meets the milestones seperately but we still worry! Try not to worry though it seems that different gps look for different things. I work in a gps surgery and a baby clinic and to be truthful I would rely on the hv's advice rather than a gp when it comes to child health checks as they have the proper training. Just saying....

Hope you all have a good weekend and happy first twin dads day to our dh's/dp's. Why dont we reward then by sending them out with the dcs for some bonding whilst we have a lie in then a bath and maybe some chocolate...

Oh and happy birthday dream

I wld have a glass of vino to toast your last year of 20s (you are so young ) , but a) I am in the boys room trying to convince them its night time and b) anti-biotics do not allow :(

But chin chin anyhow :)

pintofwine I did suggest to dh that to celebrate fathers day wld he like to take all 3 dcs out for the day. He politely declined and asked for an hour or so to potter in the garage! I tried

dream hope you had a great birthday and that the sleep is improving?

red, yes, unfortunatly I have resigned myself to the thought that public transport is a bit of a no-go area round here. I do sometimes use buses during the day, but can't get on the train on my own as the gap at the platform is far too high for me to lift the double buggy on and the staff will not help. So I walk everywhere as much as I can, and drive if I have to go more than a couple of miles (hate driving in London though). Must admit I have never seen a wheelchair user on a bus or at a bus stop so I think that whole thread was a bit theoretical!

Happy birthday Dream.

Right, I have definitely not stayed calm on the twins versus wheelchair thread now, and I also feel that I have revealed far too much personal information, so I'm signing off for a bit. I will be back in a wee while in a new guise to talk to you lovely ladies. Have a good weekend everyone.